brandonEM1

Hello all, I went to have my car tuned and my tuner would not tune it because it won't idle. I figured it was the ecu but its not cause he put another base map on it and it was still doing the same thing.

So far I have changed the distributer, ecu, and iacv with no luck. It is in time but the odd thing is it won't even run unless the distributer is all the way retarted. I was thinking it might be my cams. Skunk2 suggests -1 on the intake and +3 on the exhaust. Right now they are set on 0. Could that be my problem??

Here is my setup:

-GSR bottom end bored 20 over
-CP 12.5:1 pistons
-Eagle rods
-Ported B16 head
-Supertech bronze valve guides
-Supertech dual valve guides
-Ferra valves
-Skunk2 Pro1+ cams with AEM cam gears
-BDL fuel rail with Accel 330cc injectors
-AEBS intake manifold
-Blox 66mm throttle body
-Hytech header
-Hondata S300


The car drives great and if I set the idle screw up to 2500RPM it idles great, anything less than that, it just dies. Help me out guys!!!!

EsotericImage

iTrader: (8)

Have you spec'd the TPS sensor?

Do you have a OEM TB to use to troubleshoot the blox?

brandonEM1

He suggested I try an OEM trottle body. I'm going to try one tonight when I get off work. And no, I haven't tested the TPS but I will also do that. Thanks!!

2k.civic.si

hook a laptop up to the s300 and see whats going on.
you can check all the readings off the sensors.

92TypeR

If your cam gears are at 0,0 -- there is a chance you have already bent your valves, which could be causing the bad idle.

I recommend maintaining at least 0.025" of V2V clearance when measured cold on a bench, so that you can clear when hot and parts are moving.

At 0,0 I measured 0.011" of V2V with Pro2's (I never measured my Pro3's). Some people have even had valves touch at 0,0 on Pro-series cams.

There is a reason Skunk2 recommends using "drop in settings" of -1I,+3E. You need a minimum of 2-3 degrees of separation to prevent V2V contact.

I would immediately move the gears to -1I/+3E, run a compression test. If your compression numbers are even, there are some tricks to getting these cams to idle well. A trick I use is I adjust the throttle stop (allen adjust on the underside of the throttle pulley) until you can just barely see light showing through the throttle plate. This seems to smooth it out a bit. Fueling should be close to stoichiometric, or a tad rich.

Your IACV duty cycle settings in the ECU will need to be on the negative side to compensate for the additional airflow.

brandonEM1

My fuel pressure was set at 60 pounds. I backed it down to 38 pounds while running and it helped out A LOT. It will idle around 1200 rpm now. I am going to adjust the cam gears tonight and change the TPS.

BTW, will I need to readjust the valves after I adjust the cam gears??

brandonEM1

92TypeR, vtec has never engaged... So I'm praying I haven't bent my valves. When the engine was on the engine stand, it seemed to turn over fine with no contact, but I didn't clay the engine.... I figured it would be fine cause these cams aren't very big.

92TypeR

Pro1's are bigger than the typical "stage 2" cam. Additionally, they have large low-lift duration, and run very close between valves, even on the low cam. Claying your motor will not tell you if you are close to V2V, only a bench measurement with feeler gauges will tell you if you are safe or not.

How much money do you have invested in this build? Get a wideband O2 kit, you can get the new Innovate MTXL for less than $200 shipped. Then you can then make educated decisions and properly tune your idle before your tuner can finish the rest.

brandonEM1

I've spent several thousand dollars on this build. That's why I'm hoping I didn't mess anything up... Plus it's my only car. lol

stumpyf4

I had an issue with idle hunting with Pro1's. I searched and found several threads suggesting to crack the throttle plate ever so slightly. I'm running about 20deg timing at idle too. Idle is at 950, I couldn't get it to idle any lower without be unstable.

Also my degree settings were very close to skunks dropping settings.

brandonEM1

After I got it to idle and run properly, it spun #3 rod bearing.... yay...

It had approx 200 miles on it. My ARP rod bolts were torqued to 50 foot pounds. They were supposed to be at 28 foot pounds. Could that have been my problem?

GhostAccord

Yes....over torqued rod bolts can cause the rod caps to bow in the center. This in turn can cause an out of round profile. The excessive gap in the bearing caused by the out of round cap will vibrate during each rotation and progressively get worse, from a slight rod knock up to a spun bearing if not caught soon enough.

dueyx99

wow almost double the torque value? why stop at 50, try 100 next time

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

why would skunk2 do that?

if they bend valves at 0:0 settings why not grind the cams with that in mind and grind them to specified preset values instead of having people drop them in and bend valves...
makes no sense.

my pro2s had .018 clearance with oem valves when set at 0:0...

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

arp rod bolts supposed to be torqued to 50 lbs. you suppose to machine the rods with the bolts torqued at 50 lbs to make them round again

95eg_pormantypr

I am having the same problem keeping my poor man type r running. I have a 94 gsr bottome end with a 97 type r head on it. Anyone have a IACV FOR A GSR for sale.

mike703

well i recently thought the same thing. honda says 28 BUT if you buy arp part # 208-6401 the tech sheet says 50 ft lb if you dont have a bolt stretch gage. so i honestly dont believe that was your problem

mike703

also im not a machinist or anything but i believe the way the shop does it is, put the studs in, put the caps on, put the nuts on, torque it down, and then resize the big end. that just makes sense to me.

GhostAccord

OK however, if you tq your bolts to 50ft lbs on new rods you should have them checked to ensure that they are not out of round. Over torquing rod caps can definitely cause the BE bore to go out of round.....of that there is no question! Also I have seen some rods that have been known to come out of the box with some discrepancies. So if the op never bothered to check for out of round BE bores on the rods. It could very well be a factor.

What do the bearings look like?

brandonEM1

I did not assemble the engine. Local machine shop did. It did not spin but looks like it got hot and mushroomed out the sides. The other bearings are all warn also

brandonEM1

I'll get pics.

mike703

well if your machine shop is on the up and up. you drop off the bolts with the rods and they resize and measure everything. id bet it was your break in. did you remember to put thrust washers in. sometimes people forget those. not sure how much damage that would cause.

mike703

no doubt about the fact that you need to resize the big ends...it written in black and white on the tech sheet. i was more so making a point to the others in this thread that were loosing their brains over the 50 ft lb deal. honestly the first time i saw 50 on a tech sheet i began biting my nails and making calls. because 50 is damn near twice the oem torque value.

brandonEM1

Yeah, they put new thrust washers back in. I watched him resize my rods... Everything was in spec so I really don't understand why this happened :/

DDTECH

Nobody but me finds it funny the "tuner" wont tune the car?? When possible the car needs a tune to idle properly? I didn't read all the responses, i'm pretty sure marshall already directed you in the right direction..

But.. reguardless, the "TUNER" should diag the car and figure out whats wrong..

Myself, the only speculations i have, is rigged up wiring, i will not tune a car that has wires and butt connectors everywhere.. but reguardless..Find another tuner.