Nisif

I recently bought an Endyn breather kit for my b20vtec which will be running within the next few days. Anyways, is there anyway to tie in a hose from the valve cover vent into the Endyn breather setup? Any other suggestions? I've heard it's not a good idea to place a breather filter on the valve cover vent/plug. The Endyn breather kit is routed like this: http://www.theoldone.com/artic...g.jpg

If you can see it, the driver's side freeze plug fitting on the block routes to the top of the breather can and the passenger's side freeze plug fitting goes to the lower fitting on the can. A smaller hose is connected to a tee fitting on the passenger's side hose that routes to the very bottom fitting of the can, I believe this is for the oil to drain back.

UnKnownUser

That is the pcv valve... Setting it up to the valve cover is actually good, especially when reving high.

asubennett

Leave the valve cover nipple hooked up to your intake arm. There is a reason why peopel put filters on it. The intake arm acutally feeds cool air into the crank case. Look at a Helms manual and the way the vaccum flows. It needs to hooked up.

asubennett

Close. But actually becasue on the intake arm the hole is "slash cut" the intake arm feeds air into the valve cover. It completes the whole PCV breather system.

sumyungguy

on the Z10 engine breather kit the can is the same and so is the plug on the passenger side,,but the other line goes to a vented oil cap.. you cap off the valve cover bung.. perfect for ITB's

asubennett

Yes for ITB's that would be ideal. But for manifold appilcations please leave the valve cover nipple attatched to the intake arm.

JDM4DRACCORD

your so smart Jason. Im working on getting that tach for you. Ill shoot you a PM.

asubennett

Look at the Helms. Honda put it there for a reason. If it fed air out then why would peopel place a filter on it? I don't think they are trying to filter the air coming out of it before it hits the atmosphere. It is because they know it is going to vaccum air back into the motor and they want THAT air to be filtered.

gldndrgn14

iTrader: (1)

i think the main reason people starting put filters there is cause of looks. haha

RagingAngel

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LSVTEC_DC2R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Wow wow wow! Puting an fliter on that little nipple will actually hurt your engine than help it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Do you have a better explanation since you're sure showing your expertise.....

.....anyhow.....

I think under racing/custom (ITB) applications, it is possible to remove the PCV and run a straight barb and T into the valve cover fitting. This will enable the crankcase pressure to "push on the head" giving you a better seal. Ofcourse the other side goes into a catchcan and vents into the atmosphere....which is not a good idea on the street.....

asubennett

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LSVTEC_DC2R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow wow wow! Puting an fliter on that little nipple will actually hurt your engine than help it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Do whatever it is that you want. Just trying to help.

asubennett

Ok now tell me why and how. You keep telling me that but you are backing it up with nothing,

If you want to dispute Honda engineers go for it.

Answer these two questions for me.

1) Which way do you think the air flows? a) from the intake arm to the valve cover or b) from the valve cover to the intake arm?
------------------------------------------------If you answered (B).......Tell me this.....Why would you place a filter on the fitting? TO make sure the air venting to the atmosphere is clean? I think not. Your own practice is contradicting what you think to be right based on other peoples suggestions.

Again, you can do what you want......I will leave mine hooked up to my intake arm so that my positive crankcase ventilation can be completed properly. You need that air flowing into the valve cover. It aids with ring seal. Releive the pressure from another source..... I.E. the back of the block to a catch can or with two fitting at the front of the valve cover above the baffle to a catch can.

Nisif

With it left stock, ie, the hose running from the intake to the valve cover, should I worry about oil from the valve cover recirculating into the intake, that's what I was trying to avoid. However if you said air is actually being drawn into the valve cover rather than being sucked out into the intake, maybe I shouldn't even worry about it. Any other thoughts?

asubennett

Your last thought is the right thought.

Oil enters the intake manifold from the return hose on the breather box into the intake manifold itself.

Try this test. Pull of your intake and swipe your finger across the closed throttle palte. Shoudl be relatively clean. Now open the throttle plate and swipe your finger on the back side. Chances are it will be far more dirty/oily.

JOHN WAYNE

iTrader: (1)

quick additional question about the endyn kit...

the filter is for "off-road" use only...i imagine because of emissions issues with crankcase gases??

is there any type performance advantage to either the filter or the pcv valve?

RagingAngel

perhaps in a prolonged lapping session or even endurance race....

the filter will make the system "open" or vent to atmosphere - effectively eliminating any possibility the diluted oily vapors can enter back into the intake manifold.

This will ensure the intake charge is as consistent/clean as possible.

asubennett

Read my above posts John Wayne. Raging angel is still a little confused about how it works.

RagingAngel

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by asubennett &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Read my above posts John Wayne. Raging angel is still a little confused about how it works. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't think I am confused about this.... but in effect...let's discuss.....

If you are using the Endyn system with the filter venting into the atmosphere....how does my above post appear to render me confused?

You have removed the stock PCV valve, plus the OEM oil separator box - in exchange for the two vents you will open with the Endyn kit, at the back of the block. Those two hoses/holes now plumb into the Endyn can.

Next, you can run it closed system (NO FILTER) with the included PCV valve in the kit and this hose (PCV) will be connected to the intake manifold.

If you choose to run it in this method, although the filtration and venting is/should be superior to the stock PCV system, it will still enable some oily vapors to pass through back into the intake manifold from the Endyn can.

However, if you run it with the filter (as in ON TOP of the Endyn can) AND now that the intake manifold is capped off....these oily vapors cannot enter into the intake manifold....the oily vapor is 'vaporizing' into the atmosphere....(magic.... )

IN BOTH CASES.... both closed and open/vented.... the valve cover vent should still be attached to the intake arm with a slash cut facing the direction of the incoming air.

asubennett.....please tell me and others where I have gone wrong....and also with my previous post - detailing why the open/filtered setup is ideal for prolonged racing/lapping.....

JOHN WAYNE

iTrader: (1)

i guess my main question was is there a difference in having the system under atmospheric pressure verses vacuum from the engine...would 1 of them be more "efficient"?? than the other as far as allowing crankcase pressure to be released.

i understand the reasoning behind using the filter and eliminating any possibility of oily vapors being cycled back into the intake manifold.

rev limiter

The valve cover nipple which is hooked up to your intake arm.

Does it sucks the air out of your engine ??????

asubennett

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RagingAngel &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I don't think I am confused about this.... but in effect...let's discuss.....

If you are using the Endyn system with the filter venting into the atmosphere....how does my above post appear to render me confused?

You have removed the stock PCV valve, plus the OEM oil separator box - in exchange for the two vents you will open with the Endyn kit, at the back of the block. Those two hoses/holes now plumb into the Endyn can.

Next, you can run it closed system (NO FILTER) with the included PCV valve in the kit and this hose (PCV) will be connected to the intake manifold.

If you choose to run it in this method, although the filtration and venting is/should be superior to the stock PCV system, it will still enable some oily vapors to pass through back into the intake manifold from the Endyn can.

However, if you run it with the filter (as in ON TOP of the Endyn can) AND now that the intake manifold is capped off....these oily vapors cannot enter into the intake manifold....the oily vapor is 'vaporizing' into the atmosphere....(magic.... )

IN BOTH CASES.... both closed and open/vented.... the valve cover vent should still be attached to the intake arm with a slash cut facing the direction of the incoming air.

asubennett.....please tell me and others where I have gone wrong....and also with my previous post - detailing why the open/filtered setup is ideal for prolonged racing/lapping.....

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually you have it perfect. When you two were discussing filters above I thought we were still discussing the damn filet people stick on there valve cover. :-) I didn't realize you all were discussing the filter on top of the breather can. I guess I am the confused one. :-)

RagingAngel

we're all confused....

Cheers to ya....

To John Wayne....as of this post.... I still believe the Endyn/modified moroso can to be one of the best widely available crankcase venting "systems"

I don't really understand your question, but I assume (and I am confused by the wording) that the motor itself would work best at relieving the pressure

DOHCsideracing

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by asubennett &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok now tell me why and how. You keep telling me that but you are backing it up with nothing,

If you want to dispute Honda engineers go for it.

Answer these two questions for me.

1) Which way do you think the air flows? a) from the intake arm to the valve cover or b) from the valve cover to the intake arm?
------------------------------------------------If you answered (B).......Tell me this.....Why would you place a filter on the fitting? TO make sure the air venting to the atmosphere is clean? I think not. Your own practice is contradicting what you think to be right based on other peoples suggestions.

Again, you can do what you want......I will leave mine hooked up to my intake arm so that my positive crankcase ventilation can be completed properly. You need that air flowing into the valve cover. It aids with ring seal. Relieve the pressure from another source..... I.E. the back of the block to a catch can or with two fitting at the front of the valve cover above the baffle to a catch can.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think you have the wrong idea on how a POSITIVE crankcase system works... You are talking about a NEGATIVE (i.e., vacuum) crankcase vent system, which doesn't exist.

The crankcase gets POSITIVE pressure in it from compression leaking by the rings. This POSITIVE pressure is directly coupled to the valve cover area by the oil passages that allow oil to drain back into the pan (after being pumped to the cams and things), so the whole interior of the engine is under POSITIVE pressure at any giving time when the engine is running. If you capped off the valve cover vent, what do you think would happen...

A.) The engine would become a vacuum pump, and you would never have an oil leak,

or...

B.) The POSITIVE pressure in the engine would actually force oil out of the seals, possibly popping them out of their bores, and shooting the dipstick out through the hood?

I'll give YOU a clue... its 'B'

The only reason they put a filter on the breather is so when the engine cools, and the air inside contracts, it doesn't suck dirty air into the engine. As a matter of fact, every breather filter I have ever messed has been oily... not from oil in the air getting pulled through it, or even magic oil fairies leaving little oil drops on my breather, but from the fact that oily crankcase vapors get pushed out of the filter when the engine is running, by the POSITIVE crankcase pressure...

Adrian

asubennett

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DOHCsideracing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I think you have the wrong idea on how a POSITIVE crankcase system works... You are talking about a NEGATIVE (i.e., vacuum) crankcase vent system, which doesn't exist.

The crankcase gets POSITIVE pressure in it from compression leaking by the rings. This POSITIVE pressure is directly coupled to the valve cover area by the oil passages that allow oil to drain back into the pan (after being pumped to the cams and things), so the whole interior of the engine is under POSITIVE pressure at any giving time when the engine is running. If you capped off the valve cover vent, what do you think would happen...

A.) The engine would become a vacuum pump, and you would never have an oil leak,

or...

B.) The POSITIVE pressure in the engine would actually force oil out of the seals, possibly popping them out of their bores, and shooting the dipstick out through the hood?

I'll give YOU a clue... its 'B'

The only reason they put a filter on the breather is so when the engine cools, and the air inside contracts, it doesn't suck dirty air into the engine. As a matter of fact, every breather filter I have ever messed has been oily... not from oil in the air getting pulled through it, or even magic oil fairies leaving little oil drops on my breather, but from the fact that oily crankcase vapors get pushed out of the filter when the engine is running, by the POSITIVE crankcase pressure...

Adrian</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not true, not true, not true.

Look at a Helms and tell me which way the diagram has the air flowing. The intake arm has a "slash cut" for a reason. It directs a very slight amount of air into the valve cover.

The engine is relieved of pressure from the PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) on the back of the block.

If you really want me to I will scan and post a picture of the Helms vaccum schematics for you.

rev limiter

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rev limiter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The valve cover nipple which is hooked up to your intake arm.

Does it sucks the air out of your engine ?????? </TD></TR></TABLE>


So what is it, in or out ?????