allmotorpackage

my wideband gauge is setup to read gas AFR, not lambda. I am aware on pump gas , most tuners target
cruise/idle - 14.7 afr
medium/accel - 14.0-13.8 afr
WOT - 12.8-13.2 afr

i am planning to make the switch to E85 in the near future and i just wanted some inputs hopefully from some tuners in this section of what is a good target afr to go for - when setting it up for a NA honda. thanks



p.s. - i also read in general, to increase timing by 2-3 degree across the entire map for E85. just wanted to see if there was any truth to this

acura_b18c1

im not sure if this will help or not , but a friend's car was reading 15-15.5 on cruising on the freeway, 15 on idle if I remember correctly , and 13.8 WOT.

have no idea about the timing , hopefully someone else could chime in

slowsleeper

I believe even though the gauge shows an afr number, the sensor itself reads lamda. therefore you'd still shoot for the same afr numbers as you would regular pump.

DDTECH

AFR's are the same, the gauge you're using is a 1.0 lamba, it'll require just more "volume" to achieve the afr of gas, thats all, they use the same afr's.

ohsnapzafingcu

iTrader: (2)

i've noticedi can go a bit leaner cruising and light/partial throttle on e85 than pump, it helps with gas mileage too

allmotorpackage

yea I understand that it's gonna read the same as gas afr. I just thought that e85 can be ran leaner so I thought tuners have a different "gas" afr to target at.

ohsnapz , how lean do u run it at partial throttle ?

LowBudgetBEe

i always run the air fuel anywhere from 12.2-12.8 depending on the motor. 13.0 is the absolute leanest ive ever went. timing depends on your motor also

coryb13ser

Yeah I totally agree with this guy ^

You cn go pretty lean cruising and idle, but I wouldn't go 13 wot. My set up, 14:1 2.4 actually made most power with afrs as rich as low 12:1. Leaning it out made less power...

coryb13ser

Yeah I totally agree with this guy ^

You cn go pretty lean cruising and idle, but I wouldn't go 13 wot. My set up, 14:1 2.4 actually made most power with afrs as rich as low 12:1. Leaning it out made less power...

DDTECH

*sigh*..

All motors are different..it depends sololy on the build itself and its purpose. Target AFR's will differ from build to build because of the purpose or goal. OPITUMAL AFR for a NA car is normally 12.9-13.5AFR.

dschenke

Gasoline is all the Same AFR
because its ethanol doenst mean its METHANOL
ethanol is a gas there for its the same stoich rate as gasoline

bamboozler

E85's stoicheometric rate isn't 14.7 its 9.5 but due to the way the gauge reads the display will display the same numbers....as Allmotor stated earlier. So with the gauge reading the way it does you should shoot for the same numbers as gas just in the tuning parameters you will see a difference in the fuel and ignition tables. The MTX-L gauge gives you the options to change your fuel type so it reads true stoicheomtry but I found this unnecessary due to the ease of conversion.

92cxturbo

here is some good info on e85 vs gas

If you notice e85 max power rich/lean is a little richer then gas max power rich/lean


http://ethanolpro.tripod.com/id213.html

allmotorpackage

thanks for all the responses !

Im aware that it reads the same as gas, I jus thought we actually run e85 leaner like 15.5-16 cruise and maybe high 13afr for wot

anyways, thanks for the info

LowBudgetBEe

that air/fuel is for gasoline with a wideband for gasoline. WOT on e85 with a gasoline air/fuel for all motor isnt gonna make power 13.5afr

LowBudgetBEe

u can cruise at 14.7 part throttle at 13.5 but start tuning WOT at 12.0afr and lean it from there to see where it makes max power. my motor made max power at 12.5 and a friend of mine did at 12.8-13.0. anything leaner doesnt make more power./

DDTECH

You need to understand what you are talking about, before you spread information that is wrong.

The wideband he has, uses a 1.0 lamba gauge setup,which means, no matter if its a e85,or gasoline, its going to read the afr that it should.

To better explain, understand this.

In ectune your fuel value may be 198 for be 14.7AFR on Gas.
When on e85 it might read 248 to be 14.7AFR.

E85 just requires more volume to achieve the AFR of gas. Its all the same.

Peak torque will be had @ 13.5AFR,peak whp will be towards 13.0 - 12.8AFR.

AFR is just one part of tuning.

Its hard to explain to people who dont understand tuning.

However most AFR gauges you can purchase to display a numerical value of the AFR, are showing you values for gasoline. This is where it can get tricky, and it's important to understand how this ratio works on both gasoline and ethanol-based fuel.

All AFR's regardless of fuel type work off of a common number called Lambda. A value of 1.0 in Lambda represents the stoich for any fuel. Gasoline is Lambda 1.0 at stoich. E85 is Lambda 1.0 at stoich

Gas vs e85
14.7 vs 9.7

11.8-12.2 is the best AFR for boosted cars on E85, again it depends on how the car acts.

DDTECH

Here's a conversion chart to help understand that.

LowBudgetBEe

o
so basically you're agreeing with me. you'll make max hp around 12.8-13.0 on e85 so i wont say anything else.

LowBudgetBEe

i was trying to help but i dont know anything according to some people

DDTECH

We're talking about two different things ..you keep st.udying youll get there

LowBudgetBEe

this was the original question.

LowBudgetBEe

this was one of your answers

LowBudgetBEe

this was another answer from u.

Peak torque will be had @ 13.5AFR,peak whp will be towards 13.0 - 12.8AFR.

this was my oringinal answer.

i always run the air fuel anywhere from 12.2-12.8 depending on the motor. 13.0 is the absolute leanest ive ever went. timing depends on your motor also.


explain yourself please


if your tuning in lambda here...
http://ethanolpro.tripod.com/id213.html

DDTECH

I tune alot of cars, alot. I rarely see NA motors liking anything below the 12.5 area.. if that.. those are usually the "freak" motors that tend to like running richer, whats funny is, those cars dont like running rich on the track. I've had cars tuned for max power, and then run better after a track tuning session...after leaning up. Forget it though, its obvious this is over your head. OP, good luck.