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I finally have the chance/time/money to see how the DDTech cams perform for myself after trying numerous others for the B-series including Toda, Rocket Motorsports, and Skunk2 Pro-series. I dont have any track time with this cam yet, but I'll be sure to update. I just wanted to share the dyno-chart with you guys first because I was really impressed with the overall results so far.
First off, I want to start by saying that Derek from DDTech have very good customer service. We spoke on the phone for awhile exchanging information to figure out what might work better for my setup. After the order was made, he made sure to contact to me to keep me updated with the order status and when it shipped. Turnaround time was very reasonable especially with how busy they are. Another thing that stood out to me was that they back their product up. If the power is not there, and/or the performance is not where it should be, they will take it back and ship a new set. You can text him and he will respond literally anytime of the day! Good Customer service and Product Backup is very hard to find nowadays, so I really appreciate the way everything went.
The cam we decided to go with was the Reaper. This is their biggest race cam so choose wisely. This may not be for you if your motor is not setup properly, or if you plan to have a smooth idle etc. They require the cam-rail to be knotched roughly .030" on the intake side. and getting the cams to idle at 1000rpm was definitely a fun challenge.
It was tuned on the Hondata S300 with 91oct. Nothing changed except for cams.
I have no time to degree them in nor check clearances (not recommended), so i dropped them in with their "quick settings" of 0intake and +4exhaust. I played with the gears and it ended up at +3Intake and +5exhaust.
Here is the dyno of the initial finish, vs after dialing the cam gears :
Here is the dyno of the DDTech Reapers vs Skunk2 Pro3IN/Pro2EX
No drama in this thread please. Lets keep this Tech Related. Thanks
Thanks calvin for doing the testing and properly, setting up the camshafts. I was glad to be apart of this build and to be honest, i dont think you'll be switching cams anytime soon
Originally Posted by AllMtrRex
Thanks for your time and money testing these. Good ****.
Yep, its good to see guys who want to really, provide, good, solid information.
Originally Posted by EG1834
Wow...5hp.
What are the cam specs of each?
Our Reapers, are good for anywhere from 7 to 12 over the standard pro3's. This wasn't your standard pro3 setup, this was a hybrid setup, PRO3 intake / PRO2 Exhaust. This particular motor seemed to like the smaller exh lift / duration of the pro2, but if he'd rev it higher, he'd make more, obviously there's more then just peak power. Calvin can chime in, the car is more torquer then ever before, and it pulls, harder, then ever before.
Originally Posted by F22Master
4-5hp over a 1000rpm range... not a lot of gain for $$$
LOL.. In retrospec that may be true, but how's this for some flavor. This Pro3/2 combo has already "slaughtered" rocket's M24x, M25's and also others. This was the "premier" camshaft combo for calvin, Put ours in, spent some time dialing it in on the dyno and wahla, a camshaft that produced some more midrange / topend.
Literally, ask calvin for the dyno, i'd say the reapers are a good 15+ whp across the board over the M24/m25 camshafts, easy... as the pro3's had already destoried those.
It seems everyone's caught up on numbers, rather then actual customer experince, the car is faster in every aspect, not to mention its a profile proven, by track / dyno data.
I'm just sitting here enjoying the fact, guys are enjoying their new found power, haters gonna hate, i dont see any other cam guys doing testing, or providing proof to claims.. Just me.
Since when is 5whp easy to get on an NA motor that is already making near 260whp ? Especially on pump gas? You can check skunk2.com and ddtechcams.com for the specs, but off the top of my head, i believe the pro3 intake is .500" lift and 270 duration at .050", and the reaper was .504" lift and 282 duration
Originally Posted by F22Master
4-5hp over a 1000rpm range... not a lot of gain for $$$
4-5hp top end without losing hp in the mids is pretty good for a near maxxed out setup. I believe if I had an intake to support pass 8.5K , there would be more gains. The pro3 retails $744 , and Reaper $800. Not sure how that's $$$$. I spent the same kind of money on all the other cams for information and testing purposes. I've spent $1400 on a custom header for 10whp lost in mids, and 3-4 gains up top. I fail to see your point. It's a win/lose testing phase with NA. Otherwise, maybe boost will be a better friend for some of you.
Our Reapers, are good for anywhere from 7 to 12 over the standard pro3's. This wasn't your standard pro3 setup, this was a hybrid setup, PRO3 intake / PRO2 Exhaust. This particular motor seemed to like the smaller exh lift / duration of the pro2, but if he'd rev it higher, he'd make more, obviously there's more then just peak power. Calvin can chime in, the car is more torquer then ever before, and it pulls, harder, then ever before.
No, it looks to be falling off there at the end so I doubt there would be much more to gain by revving it higher other than, maybe, a gearing, advantage.
Originally Posted by DDTECH
It seems everyone's caught up on numbers, rather then actual customer experince, the car is faster in every aspect, not to mention its a profile proven, by track / dyno data.
First of all, he said in the OP that he had not gone to the track yet so...how do you know it's faster? Obviously, you're not caught up about numbers (such as ET/MPH/etc) to tell you, so how would you know?
Originally Posted by blacK_Dc4
Since when is 5whp easy to get on an NA motor that is already making near 260whp ? Especially on pump gas? You can check skunk2.com and ddtechcams.com for the specs, but off the top of my head, i believe the pro3 intake is .500" lift and 270 duration at .050", and the reaper was .504" lift and 282 duration
4-5hp top end without losing hp in the mids is pretty good for a near maxxed out setup. I believe if I had an intake to support pass 8.5K , there would be more gains. The pro3 retails $744 , and Reaper $800. Not sure how that's $$$$. I spent the same kind of money on all the other cams for information and testing purposes. I've spent $1400 on a custom header for 10whp lost in mids, and 3-4 gains up top. I fail to see your point. It's a win/lose testing phase with NA. Otherwise, maybe boost will be a better friend for some of you.
Is it really a big surprise that when you add more cam to something like this, the engine makes more power? It's not exactly something I would be patting Derek on the back about, but whatever. It's all about customer experience, right?
That flat spot there between 8-9k should tell you the cam isn't what's holding you back.
First of all, I said $$$. Which is right for the cost of the cams alone. But if you want to be realistic, add in the dyno time + tuner and you are easily into the 4 digit range. For 4-5hp over a 1k rpm range.
Hell, you could have driven out of state, bought a tank of 93, and then dyno tuned it and you probably would hqve seen 5hp over the entire rev range... lol
Is it really a big surprise that when you add more cam to something like this, the engine makes more power? It's not exactly something I would be patting Derek on the back about, but whatever. It's all about customer experience, right?
That flat spot there between 8-9k should tell you the cam isn't what's holding you back.
I see your underlying point here, but really it has no legs to stand on. He had "maxed out" his setup on skunk cams...skunk couldn't provide "more" so he let Derek take a crack at making more power and he did. If skunk had a set of Pro4's this might be a different discussion. Not only did he make more peak, he kept the same mid range...usually that is something we have to sacrifice when going with bigger cams chasing peak HP. It's common to see someone make 7-15whp more with a swap to bigger cams, but lose mid range as a trade-off. I'm not trying to take sides...just looking at it through a different scope.
I'd love to see a Vic X on this setup. It would wake the top end up IMO...probably carry the power well past 9k.
Calvin, was this dyno'd open header or with exhaust?
...That flat spot there between 8-9k should tell you the cam isn't what's holding you back...
I agree with your entire post.
That is maybe the 1st DDtech cam comparison I trust, good result but slow down the PR machine pls.
5hp is nothing, maybe just better harmony of these parts in the setup.
Derek,
"reapers are a good 15+ whp across the board over the M24/m25 camshafts, easy... as the pro3's had already destoried those"
I totally disagree and it is not fair, BTW it was absolutely unfair unlock you and keep him and Nikos for eg. banned!
That is maybe the 1st DDtech cam comparison I trust, good result but slow down the PR machine pls.
5hp is nothing, maybe just better harmony of these parts in the setup.
Derek,
"reapers are a good 15+ whp across the board over the M24/m25 camshafts, easy... as the pro3's had already destoried those"
I totally disagree and it is not fair, BTW it was absolutely unfair unlock you and keep him and Nikos for eg. banned!
The M25 is just as big as the reaper camshaft profile, how isnt it a comparsion?..
These are both "rocket"s premier camshafts for bigger motors, no need to hide anything, results are what they are. Ask calvin to post the graph of the pro3s vs the m24 and m25's. Do it. You will be sorely hurt on the situation.
And to address their banning, sorry, i have no control over that.
No, it looks to be falling off there at the end so I doubt there would be much more to gain by revving it higher other than, maybe, a gearing, advantage.
First of all, he said in the OP that he had not gone to the track yet so...how do you know it's faster? Obviously, you're not caught up about numbers (such as ET/MPH/etc) to tell you, so how would you know?
Is it really a big surprise that when you add more cam to something like this, the engine makes more power? It's not exactly something I would be patting Derek on the back about, but whatever. It's all about customer experience, right?
That flat spot there between 8-9k should tell you the cam isn't what's holding you back.
You're missing the "entire" point.
If i have to explain to you, then obviously its over your head.
It seems to be a never ending circle, dont you people get it? I go out, and provide actual, 3rd party testing of my camshafts, nobody else does that. I get results posted publically and people, still to this day, after all these years are still bitching and crying.. LOL.. its amazing..
To clarify, the big-tube header is a PLM Hytech. I'm a tuner at Hybridworks. I originally said to keep it tech related. I'm open to constructive criticism, but you seem to be taking jabs at somebody. I'm not sure if you guys are not liking me, or the test, or the gains, or just DDTECH in general.
Originally Posted by EG1834
Is it really a big surprise that when you add more cam to something like this, the engine makes more power? It's not exactly something I would be patting Derek on the back about, but whatever. It's all about customer experience, right?
That flat spot there between 8-9k should tell you the cam isn't what's holding you back.
Yes it's the Ultra Street holding me back. I have to remove fuel at 8K already. With the VictorX, and BMCRACE, it kept inclining all the way to 9300rpm. The ultra street also lost hp in the mids and gave me 1-2hp up top compared to a bone stock Type-R manifold so yes I aready know. Ultra Race is next.
More cam don't mean anything if it isn't designed properly, or if it's not right for your setup. I've ran cams advertised bigger than Pro3s and lost 10hp +. I feel that the Pro3 just makes really good power and is one of the best shelf cams out there which is why I was surprised at any gains period.
Originally Posted by F22Master
First of all, I said $$$. Which is right for the cost of the cams alone. But if you want to be realistic, add in the dyno time + tuner and you are easily into the 4 digit range. For 4-5hp over a 1k rpm range.
Hell, you could have driven out of state, bought a tank of 93, and then dyno tuned it and you probably would hqve seen 5hp over the entire rev range... lol
Lol actually I've done a back to back on E85, and I gained 3-5hp in the mids, and none up top so no, 93oct wouldn't make more power like the Internet says.
Again, I have no ties with any company I've tried cams for. I am my own tuner and just enjoy trying different parts. If you can't appreciate the free comparison, that I shared for free, jus hit he back button.
Ask calvin to post the graph of the pro3s vs the m24 and m25's.
lol, I knew that will be the answer. I have seen that probably earlier than U. One 1:1 dyno on one particular setup means nothing, but engine preference and parts harmony.
Nice gains, I too had great results and why is everyone bashing, he simple was happy with his results and wanted to share I made 242hp on corn with a 85x87mm 10.8:1 compression on the reapers so I trust they make power and 5hp might not be alot to some but if your competing 5hp all motor is alot, people who complain but money vs power are the same ones in the stands with race car stories...I have a cousins, neighbors, best friends, uncles brother that makes more power or I can run faster when my cars done..sorry just a rant
Off topic here, but just want to give a shout out to calvin for selling me his old pro3,pro2 combo. My car made awesome power, and ran faster than its ever ran. I really think a set of reapers would really shine in my setup
13:1 85x89
4 piston b16 head, pro3,pro2
Sk2 ultra 3.5l race intake with 4 piston cnc runners
Made 263,168 on e85 on mustang dyno
11-05-2014, 10:56 PM
DDTech vs Skunk2 B-series \ Hybridworks
