Critique my beginner porting(input greatly appreciated)
08-09-2007, 06:27 PM
#1
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Critique my beginner porting(input greatly appreciated)
this is the incomplete exhaust-side of a Z6 head and ive only hit it with 80 grit wheels, i need to get more type of wheels. im hoping i could have some tips for a beginner. Thanks
i've got alot of work left.
08-09-2007, 06:42 PM
#2
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Are you doing this head just to learn the intracacies(sp) of how to maneuver a grinder or are you looking to make this head perform well?
Are you using an air powered grinder or some sort of electric Dremel or Dremel-like tool?
Are you using an air powered grinder or some sort of electric Dremel or Dremel-like tool?
08-09-2007, 07:00 PM
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Re: (Combustion Contraption)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you doing this head just to learn the intricacies of how to maneuver a grinder or are you looking to make this head perform well?
Are you using an air powered grinder or some sort of electric Dremel or Dremel-like tool?</TD></TR></TABLE>fixed.
But feel free to post any tips of how to get started for beginners....like myself lol.
Are you using an air powered grinder or some sort of electric Dremel or Dremel-like tool?</TD></TR></TABLE>fixed.
But feel free to post any tips of how to get started for beginners....like myself lol.
08-09-2007, 07:18 PM
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Re: (Combustion Contraption)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you doing this head just to learn the intracacies(sp) of how to maneuver a grinder or are you looking to make this head perform well?
Are you using an air powered grinder or some sort of electric Dremel or Dremel-like tool?</TD></TR></TABLE>
kinda both, im want to learn off this head and also see what i can get from it. im using a dremel with the snake extension.
Are you using an air powered grinder or some sort of electric Dremel or Dremel-like tool?</TD></TR></TABLE>
kinda both, im want to learn off this head and also see what i can get from it. im using a dremel with the snake extension.
08-09-2007, 07:31 PM
#5
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If you can, ditch the dremel and go with something air powered. It will speed up the process a bit. If youre determined to stay electric, look into a big Miluakee(sp) grinder. I cant use them, but i know some big time porters that do, its just personal preference.
If youre trying to shape the port with a cartridge roll type abrasive youre wasting a ton of time. Youll be there for years. You need to be cutting with some sort of carbide cutter first, forming any flat portions and nice radii and then go back and "dress" it up with the abrasive roll. The tough thing about porting - the actual physical act of porting, not theory - is that its such a delicate dance with the cutting tool its almost impossible to put into words how to move around inside a port to get the best results possible. I was doing it for 8 hours a day for MONTHS before i became comfortable.
A small note regarding the exh. ports. Most exh. ports benefit from raising the roof of the ports in an attempt to fill the "dead" spot of low pressure that resides on the floor. If you ever get a chance to take a look at a velocity map of an exh. port there is almost ALWAYS a "hole" in the port at the port floor. Raising the roof evens out the pressure gradient from top to bottom making the port as a whole more efficient. Look at racing cyl. heads vs. Production cyl heads and the height of the short turn. That will tell you alot of what you need to know.
If youre trying to shape the port with a cartridge roll type abrasive youre wasting a ton of time. Youll be there for years. You need to be cutting with some sort of carbide cutter first, forming any flat portions and nice radii and then go back and "dress" it up with the abrasive roll. The tough thing about porting - the actual physical act of porting, not theory - is that its such a delicate dance with the cutting tool its almost impossible to put into words how to move around inside a port to get the best results possible. I was doing it for 8 hours a day for MONTHS before i became comfortable.
A small note regarding the exh. ports. Most exh. ports benefit from raising the roof of the ports in an attempt to fill the "dead" spot of low pressure that resides on the floor. If you ever get a chance to take a look at a velocity map of an exh. port there is almost ALWAYS a "hole" in the port at the port floor. Raising the roof evens out the pressure gradient from top to bottom making the port as a whole more efficient. Look at racing cyl. heads vs. Production cyl heads and the height of the short turn. That will tell you alot of what you need to know.
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08-09-2007, 08:40 PM
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Re: Critique my beginner porting(input greatly appreciated) (projectTeG)
combustion pretty much summed it all up but for a first time and using dremel its not to bad. keep practicing and you'll get the hang of it. about what to port....... well everything is different and only reasearch and trying (not to mention flow benching, dynoing and track testing) can help find out.
08-09-2007, 10:30 PM
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Re: (Combustion Contraption)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you can, ditch the dremel and go with something air powered. It will speed up the process a bit. If youre determined to stay electric, look into a big Miluakee(sp) grinder. I cant use them, but i know some big time porters that do, its just personal preference.
If youre trying to shape the port with a cartridge roll type abrasive youre wasting a ton of time. Youll be there for years. You need to be cutting with some sort of carbide cutter first, forming any flat portions and nice radii and then go back and "dress" it up with the abrasive roll. The tough thing about porting - the actual physical act of porting, not theory - is that its such a delicate dance with the cutting tool its almost impossible to put into words how to move around inside a port to get the best results possible. I was doing it for 8 hours a day for MONTHS before i became comfortable.
A small note regarding the exh. ports. Most exh. ports benefit from raising the roof of the ports in an attempt to fill the "dead" spot of low pressure that resides on the floor. If you ever get a chance to take a look at a velocity map of an exh. port there is almost ALWAYS a "hole" in the port at the port floor. Raising the roof evens out the pressure gradient from top to bottom making the port as a whole more efficient. Look at racing cyl. heads vs. Production cyl heads and the height of the short turn. That will tell you alot of what you need to know. </TD></TR></TABLE>
thank you very much! ill keep trying
If youre trying to shape the port with a cartridge roll type abrasive youre wasting a ton of time. Youll be there for years. You need to be cutting with some sort of carbide cutter first, forming any flat portions and nice radii and then go back and "dress" it up with the abrasive roll. The tough thing about porting - the actual physical act of porting, not theory - is that its such a delicate dance with the cutting tool its almost impossible to put into words how to move around inside a port to get the best results possible. I was doing it for 8 hours a day for MONTHS before i became comfortable.
A small note regarding the exh. ports. Most exh. ports benefit from raising the roof of the ports in an attempt to fill the "dead" spot of low pressure that resides on the floor. If you ever get a chance to take a look at a velocity map of an exh. port there is almost ALWAYS a "hole" in the port at the port floor. Raising the roof evens out the pressure gradient from top to bottom making the port as a whole more efficient. Look at racing cyl. heads vs. Production cyl heads and the height of the short turn. That will tell you alot of what you need to know. </TD></TR></TABLE>
thank you very much! ill keep trying
08-11-2007, 09:25 AM
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Re: (alterdcreations)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Heres an example of a very efficient port for ultra-high RPM horsepower.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
with the intake port design are they trying to slow down the intake charge? or is it a oval port turned into round at the valve?
is this gasoline engine head?
v configuration?
indi/formula one?
</TD></TR></TABLE>with the intake port design are they trying to slow down the intake charge? or is it a oval port turned into round at the valve?
is this gasoline engine head?
v configuration?
indi/formula one?
08-11-2007, 11:37 AM
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wow i like that pic!
i see the exhaust shoots up a bit... kinda what the exhaust flow likes lol...
the intake is indeed a nice thing to see,
i think theyre not trying to slow the intake charge.. but stacking the intakecharge/flow behind the valve (CC caN correct me if im wrong)
cuz from my understanding.. the whole intake tract should be... tapering from the opening..
tapered runner, ports, and get bigger a bit in volume behind the valve aka pocket/bowl
to stack up the charge, when the valve is closed so it rushes into the chamber when it opens again (teh valve) lol
combcon steve, pls correct me if my understanding is incorrect,
me likey this thread lol
i see the exhaust shoots up a bit... kinda what the exhaust flow likes lol...
the intake is indeed a nice thing to see,
i think theyre not trying to slow the intake charge.. but stacking the intakecharge/flow behind the valve (CC caN correct me if im wrong)
cuz from my understanding.. the whole intake tract should be... tapering from the opening..
tapered runner, ports, and get bigger a bit in volume behind the valve aka pocket/bowl
to stack up the charge, when the valve is closed so it rushes into the chamber when it opens again (teh valve) lol
combcon steve, pls correct me if my understanding is incorrect,
me likey this thread lol
08-11-2007, 04:16 PM
#16
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Thats a cross section of an F1 V10 cylinder head from the 2005 Cosworth engine. The design of that inlet port takes a myriad of things into consideration, but you have to remember a few things.
1. Theyre not running 45 deg. seats
2. They dont spend much time (besides Monaco, and maybe Hungary) below 9,000rpm. Most is spent from 9000 to 20,000rpm.
Regarding the flow "stacking up" behind the valve, i think you might be thinking of using the ramming technique ala the 3rd harmonic ala the Superflow manual. I have heard of porters using a specific VJ to stack up flow in a port with velocities that are through the roof, and they cant fix it, so they arrange the VJ to slow the charge down entering the bore.
1. Theyre not running 45 deg. seats
2. They dont spend much time (besides Monaco, and maybe Hungary) below 9,000rpm. Most is spent from 9000 to 20,000rpm.
Regarding the flow "stacking up" behind the valve, i think you might be thinking of using the ramming technique ala the 3rd harmonic ala the Superflow manual. I have heard of porters using a specific VJ to stack up flow in a port with velocities that are through the roof, and they cant fix it, so they arrange the VJ to slow the charge down entering the bore.
01-14-2008, 05:47 PM
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it's like drinking from a straw. The smaller the straw the harder you suck. The fatter the straw the more you get. To much and you choke! you gotta get it just right.
01-15-2008, 07:03 AM
#21
Re: (Bury Your Dead)
Hey CC,don't tell him to use a Milwaukee.He'll reget it and want to kill you for it.
I wore a grove into my thumb down to the bone on my left thumb from that damned thing.
I try to use a Mikita now it's much lighter.
I wore a grove into my thumb down to the bone on my left thumb from that damned thing.
I try to use a Mikita now it's much lighter.
01-15-2008, 09:39 AM
#23
Re: (b20beast978)
I saw this and I almost fainted because I thought that this was the begineer/original poster but this is Ed, so no worries. Sort of like giving a 90lb kid an elephant gun.
The Milwaukee 5196 "Bannana Handle" can knock people out or dig into flesh quick. But when used properly is very good for carbide work
The Milwaukee 5196 "Bannana Handle" can knock people out or dig into flesh quick. But when used properly is very good for carbide work
01-15-2008, 04:46 PM
#25
Honda-Tech Member
Yea. The last few months ive started using electric, Makita, with variable speed control and its awesome for carbide work and initial cartridge roll work. But the final finish always come from an air powered grinder.