( o )( o )

I just clayed my b16 (CTR slugs/bumpstix). I did NOT do the VTEC rocker arm swap. I was reading the Helms manual, and I am going to calculate the difference of the lobes. (yeah yeah i know, bear with me here)

First of all, my head is milled .080". I have a .074" gasket to use. The gasket used for claying is .062". Add another .012" for the thicker gasket later on.

I put clay on the Intake's Primary lobe and the Exhaust's Secondary lobe.

The clay on the quench pads did squish to roughly .056". It looks like the clay on the valve reliefs didn't even squish. The clay on the valve reliefs measure Exhaust .196" and the clay on the Intake side measured .206".

My CTR Intake cam's primary lobe is 1.305" and the secondary Exhaust lobe is 1.357". The Intake VTEC lobe is 1.453" and the Exhaust VTEC lobe is 1.429" The difference of the Intake lobes are .148" and the difference of the Exhaust lobes are .072". If I subtract the lobe differences from the squished clay, and add .012" for the thicker gasket, I come up with .070" (Intake) and .136" (exhaust). Man I hope I'm getting these numbers right.

I have read somewhere, c-speedracing I think, that you want at least .035" valve-piston clearance.

Based on this hypothetical/theoretical analysis, and considering the crank turned smoothly and the cam lobes were mic'd, do you think I'll be ok to slap on the thicker gasket and put this **** back together? Please give any helpful advice. THis is my first build and I'm basically surviving on Honda Tech's collective knowledge.

Intake .206 - .148 + .012

Exhaust .196 - .072 + .012

( o )( o )

bump

am i making any kind of sense to anyone else?

thanks!

( o )( o )

midday bump

flyrod

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ( o )( o ) &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the cam lobes were mic'd </TD></TR></TABLE>

Lobe height is not the same as valve lift. The rocker ratio amplifies the lobe profile.

( o )( o )

that's exactly the kind of informative reply i have been looking for.

so...then...my numbers are worthless? or are there rocker arm ratios i can calculate?


sounds like maybe I should do the rocker arm swap...

how would one go about removing the stripped hex key plug that holds the rocker shaft?

GOLDBERG

why dont u just clay the motor properly and measure clearance.....

( o )( o )

i would if i could get that stripped hex plug out as seen here:

http://www.c-speedracing.com/h...2.jpg

any tips?

PyroProblem

Put some valve lapping compound on the bit and try it...

I see where your going with the mathematical solution to your clearance measuring, but dont forget the valve DURATION cant really be measured unless you have a degree wheel. Then you may be able to figure out everything or at least get pretty damn close...

A borescope would be awesome for this job!

( o )( o )

Thank you. Again these are more of the informative answers I need. You guys can see my ignorance here.

Now then - this valve lapping compound you speak of...wtf is that? and how will it help me remove the hex plug thingy?

PyroProblem

Get it at the auto parts store. its just a few bucks. It will kinda fill in the stripped sloppiness of the fastener for more "bite".

If that doesnt work,you may need an " old man".Basicly a socket adapter on the end of an air hammer....
A machine shop could get it out if you cant get it. Save you a headache too!

( o )( o )

i'll look for that valve lapping compound at the store.

in the mean time look what i found:

http://www.team-integra.net/se...D=371

"All rocker arm ratios are stock at 1.55 for the VTEC lobe and 1.50 for the nonVTEC lobes. "
and
"STOCK CTR and 2000-2001 ITR
INTAKE lift - 11.5 mm, duration 243 @1mm
EXHAUST lift - 10.5mm, duration 235 @1mm"

Now that we have the duration and rocker arm ratios (assuming the numbers are correct), can we calculate the difference of clearance?

I see the numbers but I have no idea how to put the duration and rocker arm ratio into an equasion properly...

S2 INSIDER

you can't the rocker ratio is variable because the contact point of the cam sweeps across the pad.

( o )( o )

thanks, that's more of the knowledge i needed to hear.

i'll post again when i swap the rocker arms.

i do have a question though, for my own understanding. if the duration is variable because of the sweeping motion, that's one thing. but even if you switch the rocker arms, are you not at most measuring the secondary lobe, which is still less than the VTEC lobe? maybe im' missing something...please help me understand.

johnzm

the AVERAGE ratio is 1.5
just lock ur vtec on and do it.

BTW are those the endyn bumpstix u got?

FIST321

if it comes down to it weld the the allen key in an i am sure it will come out then

( o )( o )

johnzm - CTR cams

FIST321 - good idea...i keep forgetting i have a welder cuz i dont know how to use it yet. maybe its time to learn lol

GOLDBERG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ( o )( o ) &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i would if i could get that stripped hex plug out as seen here:

http://www.c-speedracing.com/h...2.jpg

any tips?</TD></TR></TABLE>

the one with the bit in it??if so easy... get a nut and weld it to the ****** then just use a regular ratchet? or something of that sort woul;d prolly work..be creative

rjay8604

Hmm, if you could drill two small halfway deep holes into the hex cap, then put two dowel pins or allen keys or anything that would fit tightly into the holes, then put anything thin and shaftlike inbetween the dowels or pins and twist it, so they hit the shaft on opposing sides, and simply twist it off. I hope that sounded understandable.

PirateMcFred

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FIST321 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if it comes down to it weld the the allen key in an i am sure it will come out then
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not a bad idea but the cadmium coating (anti-corrosion) will cause your weld to be complete crap. grind the coating off to get to some real steel then weld.

Pirate

( o )( o )

ok i just picked up a new timing belt tensioner and my rocker shaft hex bolts will be picked up tomorrow. then i will revisit the claying process.

my question now is, do i have to swap the vtec rocker arms on BOTH the intake and exhaust side? it is not clear to me based on the c-speedracing.com howto.

Also - in this pic http://c-speedracing.com/howto...3.jpg
they are doing 1 primary lobe and the other secondary lobe, correct?

which lobe do i want to measure? either way its still only a guess, right? I mean, you can switch the rocker arms all you want, but the vtec lobe is still not the one opening the valves, correct?

thanks!

( o )( o )

bump for my last question above regarding the lobs and what not.

i'm going to honda dealer right now to get the rocker shaft hex nut things. when i get back, it's on.

PirateMcFred

you can leave all the rockers out and put in one locked set of intake and one set of exhaust. clay it like this. time it and turn things slowly so if it does hit you don't bend anything. If you want, you can take the intake valves out of the cylinder with the locked ex rockers (and vice versa for the intake cylinder) and look in through the intake port and see what the ex valves are doing. take pictures for future reference. good luck...

( o )( o )

very informative PirateMcFred, thanks.

it has just been way too hot in my garage. i live in california's central valley and while my house is air conditioned, my garage is basically an oven. It's been triple-digits for like 2 weeks now. today it cooled down to 99 or so. yay.

I have been unable to get out that 3rd hex-key bolt. the inner hex has been stripped like a ****. after weeks of trying to smack in a bigger bit, or try a reverse-drill bit...no luck, the hole just kept getting bigger and rounder.

anyway i finally brought my head into work today and had homie that works in the shop MIG weld a bolt to the stripped hex bolt. then we just ratcheted it right out.

so...no more excuses...time to clay the motor properly. just thought i'd revive this thread because i know i'll have some more questions later tonight.

happy friday.

( o )( o )

i moved the engine stand into the kitchen under the fan and a/c vent.

last night i FINALLY figured out wtf c-speedracing meant about switching the rocker arms and vtec pistons. i get everything torqd down and i can not for the life of me (again) get the cam gears to line up (+3,-3). so i pulled the gears and put on the OEM cam gears. it lined up on the first try. so i said **** it. spun the crank 2x, all still lined up, and then pulled it all apart again. the clay looked almost the same as the first time when i did not swap the rocker arms. the 2 quenchpads got squished but there was plenty of room, and only one of the relief valve clays barely got touched. i realize this is at 0,0, but it's all OEM (ctr pistons, cams, cam gears, etc). i just want to get back on the road for now...with all the info i have learned from this build, i can really build smarter and more effectively.

now....time to reassemble and finish the 11 month build from hell. thanks for all the help guys. more to follow when i run into the obd1/uberdata/crome issues

X-cement-filled-EG-X

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ( o )( o ) &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
now....time to reassemble and finish the 11 month build from hell. thanks for all the help guys. more to follow when i run into the obd1/uberdata/crome issues </TD></TR></TABLE>
have you thought about running neptune? ive had plenty of friends scrap uberdata/hondata and gone to neptune, and they absolutely love it. if youd like, check out our site, http://www.hondaracingcrew.com/HRC and go into the forum area, and you can find some very knowledgable tuning advice. hope that helps. you may have to register in order to check it out.
X-eric-X