KartelB

Hi guys,

I recently parted out my turbo swap and wanted to try something a little different in the NA world. I have a high compression build with cams and was wondering if I would be able to install a set of ITBs and have it work with my Snow Performance Water Methanol Injection kit? I have done extensive research on these and I am total satisfied with the gains to be had in mid and top range as well as the increase in torque output. If it can be done, how would I go about doing it. Or should i just stick to my ITR Intake manifold and Spoon Venturi Throttle Body? The water injection is going to help me out alot in terms of minimizing or even preventing detonation at peak torque levels, and so with my compression being high, and running this on pump gas, the mixture will come in handy. Here is my setup:

Built 16a Head with Ferrea Valvetrain, 3 angle valve job, port and polish etc
Type-R intake manifold and Spoon Venturi 70mm throttle body
Skunk2 Pro 1 cams and cam gears
B18c Type-R short block with CTR pistons and arp rod bolts
Hytech Replica Big Tube header
GSR box with 4.7 M-Factory final drive
Hondata S300

P.S- The car will be a DD (well not really driven everyday, most on weekends and the occasional drive to work 2-3 times a week) but it will also take part in the occasional drag meet (2 or 3 times a year).

KartelB

Does anyone have any valuable input to present?

C_Rock77

I guess you could do something similar to how a Direct-Port Nitrous system is laid out....with nozzles in each intake runner. That's the only way I can think of that it would work.

SOHCinWA

Sometimes you must ask your self...... Is water combustable??? Last time I checked it was not.

KartelB

Methanol is combustible though and its distilled water plus methanol mixed up(50-50). Can it be done?

Phil M

Sell the methanol kit if you are going n/a. Those kits are only used to curb detonation on boosted setups where the octane is less than desirable. It would in essence rob you of power.

KartelB

Wouldn't the same be true of a NA build where the compression is a bit high(12:1-12.5:1) and the water/methanol mixture is used to " curb detonation on high compression setups where the octane is less than desirable"? Would the same principle hold true? Boost and high compression in this instance create the same problems and can be corrected using the same techniques. Please correct me if I am wrong.

nytosc

iTrader: (3)

You would be able to advance timing much higher- it would essentially be like running a higher grade fuel

KartelB

Exactly, just as I thought. Now what I need to find out now is if the Water Injection system can work with the ITBs.

Chris Tune

u already have a quick answer to that in these thread... what else do you really need?

KartelB

And what would that be. I was hoping to find a fairly detailed description of how it is done so I can replicate the method instead of having a vague solution to go by.

killerpenguin21

hold on let me grab my spoon so i can feed it to you.

you need to run a vac switch since you have no boost to run a boost switch. then run a line somehow split 4 ways and tapped into each runner most likely behind the butterfly.

all it takes is 5 minutes of thhinking.

will it benefit? i doubt it...but if its not gonna cost you so much since you have the system then why not i guess.

98vtec

your answer was:

Sell the methanol kit if you are going n/a. Those kits are only used to curb detonation on boosted setups where the octane is less than desirable. It would in essence rob you of power.


pretty cut and dry.

SOHCinWA

Water is not combustable...... Blake thats the answer.. lol

98vtec

man. You know what would be funny? make a rumor that water injection increases compression. You realize how many people would buy those like they do the flat valves just to gain a fraction of a point? omgzors.

Phil M

Since water isn't compressible then it would raise the compression a tiny bit. ;p
Lets do it!

98vtec

duh

dude, you should totally go water injection for that extra compression to get you to 14:1 on your daily. totally awesomeness.

SOHCinWA

Oh Hell yeah.. And make sure its coming from some company in Japan..... Cause if its from anyone else that has a reputation for making HP they would question it....

patriot

iTrader: (2)

Oh, they don't do anything but add weight?

kabaroo

I'm surprised that no one brought up the fact that he wants to run a Spoon Venturi throttle body on a drag car.

iskate2

water injection really is a good idea. just not on a n/a car. you'd seriously have to have 14:1 compression.

anythings possible, but what youre trying to do is a lot of work for little to no gain. and GOOD LUCK finding a tuner willing to put his name on the line to deal with your idea.

my 2 cents

K7-1Ktrevor

so water meth would show no gains.?
does that mean that N/A cars gain nothing from tuning on e85?

92TypeR

Only if you are knock limited on pump gasoline, then a higher knock resistance (high octane) will allow for higher cylinder pressures and thus more power.

For example, my motor reaches MBT at ~32* BTDC. I begin to see knock at around 36* BTDC. That means, that even if I could tune to 40* BTDC, I wouldn't gain power, because my setup likes ~32* BTDC for best torque.

E85's higher latent heat of vaporization will allow for cooler intake charge as the ethanol converts from liquid to gas phase. If you reach MBT on pump gas before knock, this is how power gains would be made using E85 on N/A setups, not from increased ignition timing.

I do not think methanol injection is ever a good idea. It seems like a band-aid method of reducing the knock characteristics of low octane fuels. If you are on the cusp of knock, a higher octane fuel is the most intelligent solution. Of course, the people running methanol/alcohol injection aren’t looking for the best solution, they are looking for the cheapest.

Water injection is even more asinine. You are injecting a non-combustible, non-compressible liquid. Please don’t.

OP - You can run 12.5:1 compression on 92 octane without sacraficing ignition advance/power, only if you run a good cam combination that allows for proper valve timing. I am running Skunk2 Pro-3's with 12.1:1 compression, and I am not knock limited with ignition timing. Choose your fuel, choose your compression, then choose your camshaft. That is the correct order.

nikko_SOHC

very informative. even though im not trying to do crazy water injection etc....your info helps me on my setup. thank you

Chris Tune

is this for real?