aluminum rods
01-03-2006, 03:13 AM
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Re: aluminum rods (2k.civic.si)
On the street or race only?
Street because they don't last very long.
There are a number of race teams that use aluminum rods.
Street because they don't last very long.
There are a number of race teams that use aluminum rods.
01-03-2006, 04:03 AM
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Re: aluminum rods (k24em2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by k24em2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">On the street or race only?
Street because they don't last very long.
There are a number of race teams that use aluminum rods.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Alum.Rods will last a long time .If you don't have ITBs and downshift real hard.With a plenum manifold its not so bad.Because it has other cylinders to rob air from.So it doesn't suck the rods apart.Has anybody ever seen an Alum.rod failure.Where it was the rods fault.Not breaking the bolts or hitting a valve.or spinning a bearing Or the old 3rd to 2nd up shift into the twilight zone. I mean just the rod failing.
I'm not saying that I haven't seen it happen ,But how many others have
Street because they don't last very long.
There are a number of race teams that use aluminum rods.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Alum.Rods will last a long time .If you don't have ITBs and downshift real hard.With a plenum manifold its not so bad.Because it has other cylinders to rob air from.So it doesn't suck the rods apart.Has anybody ever seen an Alum.rod failure.Where it was the rods fault.Not breaking the bolts or hitting a valve.or spinning a bearing Or the old 3rd to 2nd up shift into the twilight zone. I mean just the rod failing.
I'm not saying that I haven't seen it happen ,But how many others have
01-03-2006, 10:52 AM
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Re: (K2e2vin)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by K2e2vin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I thought engine builders don't put aluminum rods in street cars because they stretch after awhile?</TD></TR></TABLE>
That would make sense to me
That would make sense to me
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01-05-2006, 04:52 AM
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Re: (K2e2vin)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by K2e2vin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I thought engine builders don't put aluminum rods in street cars because they stretch after awhile?</TD></TR></TABLE>
that is correct, they do stretch.
they are great for race applications, wouldnt even think of running them on the street!
after a certain number of passes down the track, you toss em in the trash, or use em as paper weights.
that is correct, they do stretch.
they are great for race applications, wouldnt even think of running them on the street!
after a certain number of passes down the track, you toss em in the trash, or use em as paper weights.
01-05-2006, 06:45 AM
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Re: (Missing Gears)
I also suspect you better know what you are doing when building an aluminum rod motor, as coefficent of thermal expansion of aluminum is approximately 3-5 times that of steel alloys. I suspect with piston-head and piston-valve clearances run by most all motor builders, the you would end up destroying a aluminum rod motor if you ran the same clearances
01-05-2006, 06:55 AM
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Re: (BryanPendleton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BryanPendleton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I also suspect you better know what you are doing when building an aluminum rod motor, as coefficient of thermal expansion of aluminum is approximately 3-5 times that of steel alloys. I suspect with piston-head and piston-valve clearances run by most all motor builders, the you would end up destroying a aluminum rod motor if you ran the same clearances</TD></TR></TABLE>
The rod companies take that into consideration.And factor it in .They tell you that when you buy them.
The rod companies take that into consideration.And factor it in .They tell you that when you buy them.
01-05-2006, 09:50 AM
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Re: (RMF)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RMF »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The rod companies take that into consideration.And factor it in .They tell you that when you buy them.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Smart on their part. . .
As much as aluminum expands with heat, I would think you would almost have variable CR.
partial throttle with low combustion temps would run rod colder, thus less CR, but the harder you push the motor, the higher the temps, the higher the CR. . . Maybe, just thinking out loud. . .
The rod companies take that into consideration.And factor it in .They tell you that when you buy them.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Smart on their part. . .
As much as aluminum expands with heat, I would think you would almost have variable CR.
partial throttle with low combustion temps would run rod colder, thus less CR, but the harder you push the motor, the higher the temps, the higher the CR. . . Maybe, just thinking out loud. . .
01-05-2006, 08:35 PM
#12
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Re: aluminum rods (2k.civic.si)
Aluminum rods spin bearings quite easily. Most aluminum rods come with a pin or button in them. You must have a bearing fixture tool to drill a hole in the bearing to match the pin. The pin stops the bearing from spinning as the big end distorts at high rpms.
01-05-2006, 09:10 PM
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Re: aluminum rods (earl)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Aluminum rods spin bearings quite easily. Most aluminum rods come with a pin or button in them. You must have a bearing fixture tool to drill a hole in the bearing to match the pin. The pin stops the bearing from spinning as the big end distorts at high rpms. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes they do.What works good and is the simplest.Is just take a stock rod cap and drill a hole in the bottom of it the size that you want.Then just stick a bearing in the old cap .And use a drill press to drill the hole in the bearing.
Yes they do.What works good and is the simplest.Is just take a stock rod cap and drill a hole in the bottom of it the size that you want.Then just stick a bearing in the old cap .And use a drill press to drill the hole in the bearing.
01-05-2006, 09:18 PM
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Re: aluminum rods (RMF)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RMF »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Alum.Rods will last a long time .If you don't have ITBs and downshift real hard.With a plenum manifold its not so bad.Because it has other cylinders to rob air from.So it doesn't suck the rods apart.Has anybody ever seen an Alum.rod failure.Where it was the rods fault.Not breaking the bolts or hitting a valve.or spinning a bearing Or the old 3rd to 2nd up shift into the twilight zone. I mean just the rod failing.
I'm not saying that I haven't seen it happen ,But how many others have</TD></TR></TABLE>
I work in a "mostly V-8" machine shop and can say we use alot of aluminum rods, and i can only say I have witnessed 2 aluminum rod failures due to the rod. We have used aluminum rods in street motors, working well so far. We use alot of Groden rods!
Alum.Rods will last a long time .If you don't have ITBs and downshift real hard.With a plenum manifold its not so bad.Because it has other cylinders to rob air from.So it doesn't suck the rods apart.Has anybody ever seen an Alum.rod failure.Where it was the rods fault.Not breaking the bolts or hitting a valve.or spinning a bearing Or the old 3rd to 2nd up shift into the twilight zone. I mean just the rod failing.
I'm not saying that I haven't seen it happen ,But how many others have</TD></TR></TABLE>
I work in a "mostly V-8" machine shop and can say we use alot of aluminum rods, and i can only say I have witnessed 2 aluminum rod failures due to the rod. We have used aluminum rods in street motors, working well so far. We use alot of Groden rods!
01-06-2006, 09:15 AM
#15
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Re: aluminum rods (5thgenallmotor)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 5thgenallmotor »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I work in a "mostly V-8" machine shop and can say we use alot of aluminum rods, and i can only say I have witnessed 2 aluminum rod failures due to the rod. We have used aluminum rods in street motors, working well so far. We use alot of Groden rods! </TD></TR></TABLE>
I have heard of people using them on street motors in the v8 world. They usually say it is best to tear them down and inspect them at least once a year. I heard that several years ago though.
</TD></TR></TABLE>I have heard of people using them on street motors in the v8 world. They usually say it is best to tear them down and inspect them at least once a year. I heard that several years ago though.
01-06-2006, 09:37 AM
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Re: aluminum rods (Rocket)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rocket »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In areas where ambient temp never goes below 50-60 (like lowland so cali) it can prolly work.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I see who your pointing that at.....Lowland?I don't know why everybody that lives in UPLAND has a fast car.Weird huh?..LOL
I see who your pointing that at.....Lowland?I don't know why everybody that lives in UPLAND has a fast car.Weird huh?..LOL
01-06-2006, 10:17 AM
#18
Re: aluminum rods (RMF)
LOL. I say lowland because some parts of Los Angeles and San Bernadino County are in the mountains and it can easily get below 20 - 30 degrees F up there. With that temp you prolly have zero rod bearing clearance.
01-06-2006, 07:14 PM
#22
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Re: aluminum rods (5thgenallmotor)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 5thgenallmotor »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I work in a "mostly V-8" machine shop and can say we use alot of aluminum rods, and i can only say I have witnessed 2 aluminum rod failures due to the rod. We have used aluminum rods in street motors, working well so far. We use alot of Groden rods! </TD></TR></TABLE>Do you think that could be because V-8's don't turn the same kind of rpms that DOHC 4 cylinders engines do? Nor do they gain rpm as quickly as a Honda can.
I work in a "mostly V-8" machine shop and can say we use alot of aluminum rods, and i can only say I have witnessed 2 aluminum rod failures due to the rod. We have used aluminum rods in street motors, working well so far. We use alot of Groden rods!
</TD></TR></TABLE>Do you think that could be because V-8's don't turn the same kind of rpms that DOHC 4 cylinders engines do? Nor do they gain rpm as quickly as a Honda can.
01-06-2006, 07:37 PM
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Re: aluminum rods (earl)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do you think that could be because V-8's don't turn the same kind of rpms that DOHC 4 cylinders engines do? Nor do they gain rpm as quickly as a Honda can.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Some of these V-8's go to 8-9 grand.(some have big blowers) Have you ever driven a big block v-8 with a rod and piston combo that ways 200 grams more than a Honda? It revs pretty damn fast. Especially with a roots blower attached. Don't get me wrong I am a import guy, but there is no replacement for displacement. The thing that gets me about aluminum rods for a Honda, is they just look so damn funny. Anyone actually have one that they can weigh?
Some of these V-8's go to 8-9 grand.(some have big blowers) Have you ever driven a big block v-8 with a rod and piston combo that ways 200 grams more than a Honda? It revs pretty damn fast. Especially with a roots blower attached. Don't get me wrong I am a import guy, but there is no replacement for displacement. The thing that gets me about aluminum rods for a Honda, is they just look so damn funny. Anyone actually have one that they can weigh?
01-07-2006, 12:25 AM
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Re: aluminum rods (earl)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do you think that could be because V-8's don't turn the same kind of rpms that DOHC 4 cylinders engines do? Nor do they gain rpm as quickly as a Honda can.</TD></TR></TABLE>
First, How is your TV show going? My Name Is Earl.
Earl do you know that a 500ci Pro Stock PUSH ROD ,Two valve shifts at over 10,000?And that some Mod.Prod. and Super Stock SBs are twisting those over 11,500?Also the Alcohol Dragsters and funny cars buzz those to 11,000.(New valve springs every pass but still)Now how many Honda's are doing that?
This isn't a Horse Power comparison its to show how durable an alum. rod is.
Oh and don't even need to bring up how quick a Top Fueler revs.They just go RUT
REAL LOUD
First, How is your TV show going? My Name Is Earl.
Earl do you know that a 500ci Pro Stock PUSH ROD ,Two valve shifts at over 10,000?And that some Mod.Prod. and Super Stock SBs are twisting those over 11,500?Also the Alcohol Dragsters and funny cars buzz those to 11,000.(New valve springs every pass but still)Now how many Honda's are doing that?
This isn't a Horse Power comparison its to show how durable an alum. rod is.
Oh and don't even need to bring up how quick a Top Fueler revs.They just go RUT
REAL LOUD
01-07-2006, 12:52 AM
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Re: aluminum rods (5thgenallmotor)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 5thgenallmotor »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Some of these V-8's go to 8-9 grand.(some have big blowers) Have you ever driven a big block v-8 with a rod and piston combo that ways 200 grams more than a Honda? It revs pretty damn fast. Especially with a roots blower attached. Don't get me wrong I am a import guy, but there is no replacement for displacement. The thing that gets me about aluminum rods for a Honda, is they just look so damn funny. Anyone actually have one that they can weigh?</TD></TR></TABLE>it always sends me goosebumps to hear that sound
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RMF »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
First, How is your TV show going? My Name Is Earl.
Earl do you know that a 500ci Pro Stock PUSH ROD ,Two valve shifts at over 10,000?And that some Mod.Prod. and Super Stock SBs are twisting those over 11,500?Also the Alcohol Dragsters and funny cars buzz those to 11,000.(New valve springs every pass but still)Now how many Honda's are doing that?
This isn't a Horse Power comparison its to show how durable an alum. rod is.
Oh and don't even need to bring up how quick a Top Fueler revs.They just go RUT
REAL LOUD</TD></TR></TABLE>
^^^^ I'm glad that was pointed out very good insight. Engine dynamics is virtually the same in out motor as in those motors. I like how you put PUSH ROD in bold.
Some of these V-8's go to 8-9 grand.(some have big blowers) Have you ever driven a big block v-8 with a rod and piston combo that ways 200 grams more than a Honda? It revs pretty damn fast. Especially with a roots blower attached. Don't get me wrong I am a import guy, but there is no replacement for displacement. The thing that gets me about aluminum rods for a Honda, is they just look so damn funny. Anyone actually have one that they can weigh?</TD></TR></TABLE>it always sends me goosebumps to hear that sound
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RMF »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
First, How is your TV show going? My Name Is Earl.
Earl do you know that a 500ci Pro Stock PUSH ROD ,Two valve shifts at over 10,000?And that some Mod.Prod. and Super Stock SBs are twisting those over 11,500?Also the Alcohol Dragsters and funny cars buzz those to 11,000.(New valve springs every pass but still)Now how many Honda's are doing that?
This isn't a Horse Power comparison its to show how durable an alum. rod is.
Oh and don't even need to bring up how quick a Top Fueler revs.They just go RUT
REAL LOUD</TD></TR></TABLE>
^^^^ I'm glad that was pointed out very good insight. Engine dynamics is virtually the same in out motor as in those motors. I like how you put PUSH ROD in bold.