earl

Being a moderator has nothing to do with intelligence or experience or whether I am right or wrong. It is just my curse
There are some pretty fast Toyotas out there. How could it be possible that their motors could live? It can't be possible because they don't have colored bearings like Honda. Right?
The point I am trying to bring to everyone is that the rest of the world does quite well WITHOUT honda's colored bearing system. The whole world uses ONE SIZE fits all..except OEM Honda. I'm not arguing right or wrong more than I'm trying to open everyone's eyes that there is more than one way to do something correctly. Most everyone here does not venture into the world outside of Honda. As soon as you go to an aftermarket rod, the whole color system is gone. It does not work anymore. No matter which bearing you choose, you can't accept what you think is right. You must measure to be sure.
Having said all that, the Honda colors force you to a clearance right down to the nearest ten thousandth. That's great but who is to say that is the perfect clearance for the motor. It might be best for a STOCK Honda but not necessisarily for a high performance Honda. I just want everyone to think and not follow blindly. In a Honda build, all other parts and clearances are changed, why be so frozen on bearing clearance?

Arturbo

Hey now I am a moderator too and I say use OEM honda too. If you notice that I didnt use Endyn as a source, I used another article for a reason so people cant say he said it. Even tho he has for years.

There was a reason Honda in the ITR use split bearing colors, and they did the same in the older vehicles even tho the helms didnt say. Even tho this dumb piece of metel will not know he difference between .0015 and .0017" of clearance I still run .0015 in all my mains.

Everyone can argue till we are blue in the face and its not going to help so why even argue? I use OEM and always will, but I am not saying ACL's bad and there is not need to get mad with each other. Lets all have a group hug.

art

earl

Half assed is throwing in a bearing by color and not measuring anything. No matter what make of bearing you use, measure the clearance and decide if that is what you want. JG builds all their motors to .002" clearance because that is what they feel the motor needs. It is a little too much for me and way to much for Honda but are they wrong?

earl

I'm not mad but soon I'm going to take my views to Larry's board. I think I can go head to head with him on this one.

ALLMTRWHORE

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Arturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey now I am a moderator too and I say use OEM honda too. If you notice that I didnt use Endyn as a source, I used another article for a reason so people cant say he said it. Even tho he has for years.

There was a reason Honda in the ITR use split bearing colors, and they did the same in the older vehicles even tho the helms didnt say. Even tho this dumb piece of metel will not know he difference between .0015 and .0017" of clearance I still run .0015 in all my mains.

Everyone can argue till we are blue in the face and its not going to help so why even argue? I use OEM and always will, but I am not saying ACL's bad and there is not need to get mad with each other. Lets all have a group hug.

art</TD></TR></TABLE> yeah and that is a good playing ground for your tolerences on your bearings, and everyone will benifit with this info.

yeah well earl like to attack users and he seems to be up on endyn's jock! I just express myself the way I feel is right and try to help everyone I can in my own lil way!

so sorry I got a lil upset! and you have a good point

ALLMTRWHORE

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm not mad but soon I'm going to take my views to Larry's board. I think I can go head to head with him on this one.</TD></TR></TABLE>

good with the info you guys come up with everyone can make there own decisions on what is best for them!

yes jg those use ACL and I have known for years what they use for there tolerences that's why they go through alot of motors but hey they are racers they can use what ever the hell whatever they want cuz they have unlimited amount of funds compared to your average tuner!

earl

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ALLMTRWHORE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
yes jg those use ACL and I have known for years what they use for there tolerences that's why they go through alot of motors but hey they are racers they can use what ever the hell whatever they want cuz they have unlimited amount of funds compared to your average tuner!</TD></TR></TABLE>Seems to be working ok for Leslie Durst. I think she has been on the same motor all year but I could be wrong.

Arturbo

I know earl didnt mean it personal. I say this because I know him and the internet has a funny way of how we express ourselvs and how people interpet things. Earl is still my mentor, but I'll have my own opionions. Opinion are like ********, everone has one. Just some larger than others.

But OT, I use endyn products.

skribblah

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Arturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... I use endyn products.</TD></TR></TABLE>

earl

I'm not mad, just passionate about my beliefs. However, my beliefs can be changed with proven facts and I am open to learn.

ALLMTRWHORE

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm not mad, just passionate about my beliefs. However, my beliefs can be changed with proven facts and I am open to learn.</TD></TR></TABLE>

that's great! but to say one product is better then another is just plain out pointless! use what you use and if your happy with it stick with it! I just have had and heard to many bad experiences with those bearings but hey that's me not you!

I can't be mad with a stout converstion when people have strong beliefs in there products. I just give people my insight to my experiences I wont mislead people and lie to people and when I firmly believe in what I say.

but I will never support those products when they are manufactured by other companies and all they do is slap a name on them and call it there own! I am just trying to educate people when some people in this buisness tend to be misleading.

stale1 '01 itr 616

Just my .02 cents. Everyone must distinguish their car from street and race. Not all race parts are good for street and vice versa. People who race tend to rebuild engines more frequently. Real Time Racing rebuilds their motors after every race. Bill Gude suggested to me that I change the bearings after about 4 hours of track use. Just wanted to bring up a couple of points that didn't seem to be addressed.

earl

I never said acl was better than honda bearings, just the same quality at half the price.

Arturbo

I think the main reason they(ACL) are appealing is because they are easy to find at the price you cant beat it. But I was at the honda dealership parts department today and saw a sign there that read: Imatation is the greatest form of flattery, but it has no place in your Honda.

On a side note, ACL do work but its something I wouldnt use in my personal motor.

art

ALLMTRWHORE

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Arturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think the main reason they(ACL) are appealing is because they are easy to find at the price you cant beat it. But I was at the honda dealership parts department today and saw a sign there that read: Imatation is the greatest form of flattery , but it has no place in your Honda.

On a side note, ACL do work but its something I wouldnt use in my personal motor.

art</TD></TR></TABLE>

or what I like to say "Imitation is the greatest form of laziness".

aeolus

[QUOTE=Arturbo]Also check this out:
http://www.popularhotrodding.c...mouse/

You dont see nascar using ACL, clevite or Federal. They use OEM honda for a reason. Sorry Earl, you can all day but this is where I disagree with you.


From what i have read of that article,all i see them mention is using a honda size jounals,i don't see them saying specifically that are using honda bearings.Using the smaller journal is done basically to get less friction than from using the bigger journal,so they probably sized the journals to the honda size bearings because those are the bearings you can find that are mass produced already and most likely be available.

snowseeker

OEM honda bearings!!

earl

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aeolus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


From what i have read of that article,all i see them mention is using a honda size jounals,i don't see them saying specifically that are using honda bearings.Using the smaller journal is done basically to get less friction than from using the bigger journal,so they probably sized the journals to the honda size bearings because those are the bearings you can find that are mass produced already and most likely be available.</TD></TR></TABLE>What you are saying is true. Journals are cut to save friction not to have access to Honda bearings.
Honda bearings are great but they are not magic. If you ever have the imagination to try a set of ACL's, you will thank me for saving you $$. No one beats their bearings any harder than me. We shift every gear at 10,300 rpms and run the motor on the edge of detonation. A tuning error this year (not our normal tuner) cost us a set of pistons. The timing was advance 10 degrees more than we always run it. Detonated a piston to death but the bearing and crank were fine. Not saying the same thing would not have happened with a Honda bearing also but the ACL came out perfect.

BLUE EH3

HOW much cheaper are acl bearings fromhonda bearings. i searched on yahoo for acl bearings and i didnt get ****

FredoSP

this is a good info

SiR831

good thread
i've been pondering between using ACL or Honda bearings when it comes to rebuilding my motor.

the DR.

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There are some pretty fast Toyotas out there. How could it be possible that their motors could live? It can't be possible because they don't have colored bearings like Honda. Right?
The point I am trying to bring to everyone is that the rest of the world does quite well WITHOUT honda's colored bearing system. The whole world uses ONE SIZE fits all..except OEM Honda.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I work for toyota and have rebuilt tons of engines, and toyota's DO in fact have select fit bearings (although not color coded) match the block #'s and crank #'s to get the # bearing size, same as on a honda..

AzG35

About half the price... ACL = ~$100

J2turbo21

Im using them on my all motor setup and i see no problems.

DohcVtecCrx

Personally I do not think u can go wrong with either bearing ACL or Honda OEM. It would be really nice if people on this thread would discuss the facts on bearings to give people an idea why u use the bearings of your choice. The facts are ACL bearings are a harder faced bearing than the honda OEM bearings. They will take more of a beating (detonation, overrevving ect.) than the honda OEM bearing will. When using a harder faced bearing you have to make sure everything is super super clean because it will not embed (suck in) particles like the softer oem bearing will. Basically I feel if your gonna build a higher HP motor and it will be started from scratch and might have any tunng issues use the acl. I have pulled apart motors using acl bearing that detonated so bad rings and ring lands were broekn and the bearings looked brand new. I have seen oem honda ones that detonated for a few seconds and the bearings showed alot of wear. If your going to rebuilt a stock motor for another 200k miles run and know exactly how to get the OEM bearings in the tolerances u need then go OEM.
As far as expert engine builders go they have the right to use what ever bearing for their liking because building a motor is more than just parts swapping it is a fine art and they should use what they beleive is best. For the average Joe acl makes it simpler and cost alot less, just make sure u are checking your tolerances. Using oem can be a bit harder when it comes to getting the bearings u need, and for people using oem with aftermarket rods remember the rods are usually sized at a #3 rod and u cannot just swap in the same colors that u had in your motor before because most oem motors come with at least 2 or 3 diffrent sized rods.