birdie92k

First thing - I have watched the OMNIMAN 200whp B16 build I am not in the same situation so I can't just take that route. Budget is not fixed necessarily but I'd like to put together more or less as good a setup as I can as soon as I can with what I have available. I'm not absolutely hardcore racing just yet. I didn't win the lottery. Just wanna put together a nice little package and get out on the asphalt.

-Currently have 2 complete stock B16B CTR bottom ends. Mileage unknown, assumed to be mid-range judging from wear. Bearings will be replaced, along with rod bolts, main bolts and rods shot peened.

-1.6L chosen because thats the limit of the cc allowance in the specific race series I plan to put the car into. Also the cheapest and most competitive series, probably cuz its the cheapest to just drop in a stockie and roll.

-Car is an EF hatch, currently sits with lexan windows all around, multi-point cage...not weighed but the lower limit of the series is 1600lbs...I dont expect to get that low anytime soon or ever for that matter.

-I have a set of Crower stage 2 cams - pt# 63402-2

-Fuel setup is aeromotive A1000 pump, filter system with FPR, fuel rail and fuel cell. Fuel will be either 94 octane, C16/Q16 or a measured mix of the 2. More or less if I'm happy with the goal achieved from 94 I'll stick to that. If not then I will make the change.

Transmission - JDM 4.4 FD LSD transmission - stock (will change later to a 4.9xx setup with cusco/kaaz/m-factory clutch type LSD). Lightweight flywheel I have as well.

Exhaust - currently have a kiddracing RMF replica narrow header....remainder of exhaust is free. I will go with 2.5" ID catback, with resonator and HKS Hi-Power muffler....no cat obviously.

Now onto what is available and what I would like to achieve from the setup.

Power goal - 200+ whp (without changing bottom end beyond pistons) - again I'm looking to get a good running setup with what I have but I don't mind buying the rev racing exact replica PCT pistons that have a slightly higher compression that OEM. To my knowledge these are the only off the shelf piston for the b16b and is available in 81.5 and 82mm. I would be open to buying an even higher compression B16/B18 style piston and machining the block to have a more suitable deck height for the rod/piston combo chosen.

There is a port and polished B16 head (by reputable engine builder) + blox titanium retainers + springs + buddy club high compression valves + blox comp. stage 3 cams + blox 70mm TB + AEM cam gears and all new seals for the head available for a very good price. I don't know what the flow numbers are for the head. Also don't know what valve job was done on it. All of the work and parts have 0 mileage.

I would keep the head, valves, TB, springs and retainers....sell the AEM gears for sure and the cams because I highly doubt I would be able to make these cams work in their ideal scenario in a 1.6L engine. P.S. I would keep these cams if it would work under say roughly 12.5:1 compression. Otherwise please advise. Also remember I have the crower stg.2 cams but now I don't think 200+ whp is possible without exclusively race gas. Cams are still flexible at this stage. I can get rid of both and hunt some Rockets or buddy club spec 4s or s2 pro2.

Will go with S2 or blox Intake manifold or victor x since I'll be in the higher RPM range, for now....will later consider ITBs but sand is a serious concern there for me and I haven't done enough research but I know they make better throttle response and more power.

Ignition I will stick to ITR distributor and good wires....any suggestions for future reference? Anyone with circuit racing/ time attack running otherwise?

So....with that all said and done....thoughts? Is my goal realistic? Is it possible with the head, cams, fuel, exhaust, IM available and 440cc injectors, and tuned?

Would I be better off selling the B16B block altogether and get a B16A bottom end and have the availability of lighter aftermarket rods and pistons?

I really want to get this car up and running well and have some fun and save $ after for its eventual overhaul to make it even better.

Thanks in advance for any help/thoughts/suggestions that are posted. I really appreciate any time taken to read this long *** post and offer your thoughts. I'm tired of unfinished projects.

hoffmanb16

Your stuck on the 1.6L bottom end hey? no chance of going bigger?

PyroProblem

B16B is probably the best 1.6 liter block you can get...

With a fully ported head, cams, good tuning, and all the other goodies I think 200whp is definately possible.

I'd stick with the stock B16B bottom end and fully build up the head, maybe mill it a little if clearances allow for it.

birdie92k

No, that would put me in the 2.1L max class and if were there I'd go K.

I realize right here on this first page there is a thread about N/A b16b but that guy doesn't seem to know where he wants to go, what cc, what power and still wants 30+mpg...I couldn't care less for fuel mileage..as long as I have enough to go 10 laps..that will do. If I wanna take a long drive I'll hook up a secondary fuel tank..lol

The other thread about the B16A - his power goals are much below what mine are and the link posted in there about the guy with the B16A who made 188whp and runs low 13.s is definitely some good direction and I know him personally and read that build completely. He now stopped that build and is making a RWD K-swap conversion in that EG6...coming along nicely I might add. He reached his limit with the 1.6.

So I'm just trying to get thoughts directed specifically at what I have available and pretty much all the builds about B16s I've read have all to do with pump gas which is great but there is still room for improvement when you start to add race gas. You can push compression levels higher, bring in more air etc.

I humbly apologize before hand if anyone feels this is a useless thread.

EG6 Master

You're on the right track with your ideas.

If you CAN change the B16B rods for L/W units, I would do it. If NOT, then just get the stock rods balanced and shotpeened.

The only other suggestions I have are to DEFINITELY go with Buddy Club Spec IV cams!!! DEFINITELY!!! THEY WORK WONDERS ON THE B16B!!
The other is to go with the Victor X intake manifold and you already have the RMF Narrow.

Good Luck

birdie92k

So far this is the route I would like to take...by that I mean swapping the pistons for the off the shelf exact copy of the PCTs which offer slightly higher compression but maintains the compression height of the piston.

The issue with the head is as discussed in the omniman dvd, ideally you want a bigger bore of the intake tract of the head and a suitable 3 angle valve job. If I use that head, shops will not want to just port the intake tract and do the valve job...in other words they want a virgin head..rather than reworking a worked head...not only that but its unused...would I see significant gains in reworking it to justify that cost when looking at my goal?

Next issue is can the cams I have make it there with the mods? Or sell and get another?

Not many people have ran the Crowers N/A with a built head and not many people have ran them period so there isnt much to go on. Maybe this week I'll try to contact crower and ask some questions about the cams.

I know the blox stg.3 is good for well beyond 200whp...but from 1.6L...I can only pound so much compression into the stock sleeve bottom end.

Thanks for the replies so far fellas.

birdie92k

Are there any off the shelf L/W units there in Japan that you know of? I have searched time and time again without success for something off the shelf. It seems like custom is the only way to go to lighten those suckers. Again, what would that lighten amount to in terms of power production, stress and longevity of the motor...though longevity isn't my major concern for this build. 1 to 2 years on a 40sec short circuit would be fine by me if I'm getting the results from it. That shouldn't be an issue...doesn't amount to even 20 hours run time a year. 5000-10000kms rebuild I'd be happy.

Yes I have seen the buddy clubs perform. They ain't no joke. I love their parts. Not too long ago I got a "special edition" lol...race spec seat...sooo comfy and sexy.

Thanks btw.

EG6 Master

There are no off the shelf rods for the B16B. Here, all the tuning companies like to run the B16Bs with ITR cranks. It would be in your (and your motors) best interest to go with custom rods over stock, if you have to choose between the two options.

However, I did find these light weight rods:

ML93970B-4 * SPL. GSR BK861 IA05


Weight --Length -Big End Bore -Big End Width-- Pin Bore
--423---- 5.6700 --- 1.8900 -------- 0.8580-------- 0.7870

****WOW 423 GRAMS!!!!!****

@ this link under Rod Inventory: http://www.crower.com/connecting-rods.html

If you willing to get pistons made to match the smaller (much lighter) piston pin size and 1-2mm reduced compression height, then they are ABSOLUTELY PERFECT for what you are trying to do.

AND YOU ARE VERY WELCOME

N/A

Eg6 master this guys is like your best friend right now eh? Lol


Just one question...you really think the vicX is a good choice?

EG6 Master

ONLY because he can rev the B16B up high enough to make use of the post 8.5K+ RPM intake surge of the Victor X. He did say he was going to be in the upper RPM range, so if he revs to 10K RPM then yes. Otherwise, I would say AEBS.

I normally only post on B16A/B and F20B threads. The other engines dont really interest me. So yeah he is....LoL

N/A

Wouldn't you say the s2/blox manifold is better for a b16 cause the angle of the runners?

EG6 Master

I am considering all the variables here. Airflow equals HP, nothing will flow like the Victor X at 8.5K+ RPM if he has all the other parts to support power production in that RPM range. I personally had great success on my B16A with the AEBS. The Shunk2 is good also.

PyroProblem

I think the Victor X might be a little tooo big...

If it were me and money wasn't really a limiting option...

82mm OS CTR pistons-I think this will put you just over the 1600cc limit, something like 1635cc

RLZ/4 piston/CCcylinderheads portwork- Can't go wrong with any of them.

Stock Intake manifold opened up and ported OR maybe a Performer X I think would emphasize the powerband of the B16B. Anything too far from stock I think would start getting away from the B16B's breathing range..

Cams- Definatley go bigger/aftermarket. The choices are vast. IDK what works best on B16B's..

Toda header seems to be the best performing on 1.6 liters...

Stock ignition should be fine...
and most importantly- TUNING. I lie Neptune personally, but any decent tuning platform/software will work...

EG6 Master

I ONLY like it because of the RPM range he said he would be operating in. Additionally, he named it as one of his options.

Here is a test that Turbo Magazine did on a B18C Type R. I know that it is NOT a B16B, but the higher RPM capabilities it possesses is the key since that is where B16Bs thrive.

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/02...ake/index.html

Like I said, Skunk2 and AEBS are good also.

PyroProblem

True. With all the headwork and bigger cams, it just may be the best option for him too...

DDTECH

Cams with decent sized primaries and good bit of duration on the vtec lobe is what will work for a b16. You dont want a ton of lift, but a well designed cam can work very well in your favor. BCIV's aren't the right cam for a b16 btw. My stage 1's, BCIII+, pro1's or Brian crower's stage 2's, and s2s2's, would be a good set of choices for a b16

Victor X is entirely too big for a b16. No matter how you put it. PerfX all the way.

N/A

I'm sorry I Was vague. I meant between the s2 and aebs. The skunk2 would be a better option for a b16 because of the angle of the runners

EG6 Master

Well.... the Skunk2 is a Type R clone of sorts. Runner angle will not create as much HP as air flow and velocity. But, like I said, the AEBS worked great for me. Its runners and plenum design are pretty good also. Personal choice plays a role here also. I wanted to try something different, thats why I chose the AEBS. VERY happy that I did so.

N/A

I see. I just took my aebs of my gsr

birdie92k

Definitely I think tuning will be the most key aspect once a solid combination of parts are chosen based on their proven characteristics. I am also placing great emphasis on keeping the weight as low as possible so certainly maybe late next year if all goes as planned I will be fitting it with a chromoly cage.

Toda header would be nice but versus the one I have based on dynos I dont see the benefit in spending 4 times what I paid for this one to POSSIBLY squeeze 1 or 2 whp from this 1.6L.

s2s2 was used in the build posted in another thread on a b16 and he made 188whp with a stock head, s2 IM, vibrant header, walboro 255, s2 catback, tuned on 94 octane gas. So I think they have the ability to cross 200 with the built head and better header and victor or perf x. Though the perfX states its optimized for 3500-8500. I'll be turning to 9500+ as long as the cams are still delivering jam.

Why do you not suggest BCIVs for it? Too much on the lift side of things? Overcamming the motor? If I'm not mistaken, most BC3+ builds end up getting more of a gain in the mid range and good gain in the top end versus the reverse.

AEBS you say? Lots of people I know personally use them and have had good results. I've personally used their TB and that worked nicely with the typie I had at the time.

UPDATE ON SLIGHT CHANGE:- Well maybe not that slight...I've made a decision to go B16A bottom end instead. Reason? I got the following for $1000...Assembled and complete btw so no need to even touch the bottom end beyond dropping the oil pan and cleaning it with toothbrush precision...

Mahle 9cc 81.25mm pistons with piston and skirt coatings 11.5:1 compression with stock head
Eagle h-beam rods with ARP bolts
ARP head studs
All new clevite bearings and felpro gaskets
New waterpump and timing belt tensioner
Greddy super blue timing belt
New oilpump
Moroso baffled 4qrt oil pan
Balanced and blueprinted to 10,000rpm
Exedy chromoly lightened flywheel
Exedy stg 1 clutch

This is from the same build posted in the other thread from the guy I know locally here and I've dealt with him in the past, I knew when the build was done and mileage etc. He parted it out because no one would buy a B16 for $3500..lol.

I can recover money from at least one B16B bottom end...will keep the other for daily abuse in the EJ1, the flywheel and the clutch. There are other extra parts to recover $ from as well that can go towards the exhaust piping and IM.

And I will have a very nice bottom end with quality parts and a significantly lighter rotating mass than what I would have had with the B16B option. I will have higher compression than what he had with just the pistons and stock head by using a 2 layer head gasket and also the buddy club flat faced valves will add a few points of compression. I'm just hoping that the port and polish job done on the head is enough to make the push towards 200+ as we all know the head is where you make the jam. Very excited about the bottom end. Head I should have in my hands tomorrow with all the parts so the blox C cams will be up for sale/trade shortly.

Thanks for all the input so far guys. This is going really well.

So, things are set for my bottom end, my head, valve train, fuel and ignition. I see the final CR coming in somewhere around 12:1...higher is guaranteed when rebuild rolls around. 13+ and dedicated race gas to make that B16 rumble with the 2.1.s in the faster class. If I can seriously pull off a 1.6 to hold its own with the 2.1s...well more like 2.0s since no one is running anything beyond a k20 or heavily modded B20V, that would be too perfect. I'm not holding my breath there at all..I'd probably die.

birdie92k

Another update here guys.

So far I've got the B16A bottom end with...

Mahle 9cc 81.25mm pistons with piston and skirt coatings 11.5:1 compression with stock head
Eagle h-beam rods with ARP bolts
ARP head studs
All new clevite bearings and felpro gaskets
New waterpump and timing belt tensioner
Greddy super blue timing belt
New oilpump
Moroso baffled 4qrt oil pan
Balanced and blueprinted to 10,000rpm
Exedy chromoly lightened flywheel
Exedy stg 1 clutch

Wednesday coming I'm heading to pick up a head to mate up. This head is from a 12 sec All motor 2.0L crx thats being parted out. It made 238whp 168wtq. So I can definitely see the potential of it getting my 1.6L to 200whp. *crosses fingers*

Head ITR shaved fully ported
Skunk2 PRO 2 cams, springs, ti retainers and cam gears
Victor X intake manifold with Skunk2 68mm TB
RC 550 injectors
STR fuel rail
AEM FPR
+ITR Valve cover
(Above is costing $1600...its used but relatively low mileage)

Also got a 3.5" aluminum intake pipe with velocity stack to feed it.

So things are coming along nicely. Will have to start putting the wiring together in the bare chassis so that I'm not ready to go motor wise and have no damn way to even start the thing. Hopefully this can serve as a bit of a list of parts that can be put into a B16A and get some good power from it. Although I doubt built B16s will be all the rage of 2012..hahaha

I'm gonna roll with the S2S2 cams for now and see what result I get before I go over to the BC3+. Hey, no need to spend if I don't have to right.