Timmerrr

Ok so the time has come to step up my game and order big boy coil overs for the EP3! (no more stock struts an tein s-techs) My question is what would the suspension gurus suggest for spring rates? As of now the car will not be driven in the winter and but daily-ed in the summer on nice days and taken to every auto-x event in the Milwaukee region and a few in Chicago if I have time. I was thinking something around 8k front and 12k or 14k in the rear. These rates are a little softer than what I have seen most people that are serious about tracking the car are at but are roughly the same ratio front to rear. I do still want a small amount street-ability out of the car, Im not sure what to expect for ride quality seeing as the s-techs and stock struts aren't to stiff they are just under dampened with not enough strut travel so they bottom out everywhere... lmk what you think I'm open to any suggestions. Thanks for any input guys, I hope this thread can help some others out in the same situation.

mustclime

autoX you set up for class....coilovers put you into the bigboys classes

I helped a kid set up a sneaky sorta stock setup...02-04 rsx type-s springs with koni's....we later went on as he got better to an 05-06 rsx A-Spec kit with koni's and fully set the car up with bushings and a 05-06 type-s sway bar set ......he gets top 3 in the local races....


Disclaimer...I f-ing hate the scca people that classed these cars.

Timmerrr

Ya i understand the whole coilover thing with the scca as of right now, i have talked to some of the other guys running stf and they are running full coilovers... i know it is not persay legal in stf but at the regional level at least by me no one is complaining. Also this is going to transition to more of a track day car as i get better as i driver. I'm looking at parting out the turbo and b16 in my crx and going back to the d16a6 and converting it to a stc car for auto cross. So throwing classing out the window with this car what spring rates would you suggest while still being bearable to a younger guy for driving around in the summer.

mustclime

you would not like my setups...they will really cut times but they will beat you to death dd...imo, there is not such thing as a streetable dd/track day car.

imo your rear rates are way to low....at one point i was running 18k in the rear but the real number these cars need in 23k ....why so high?( assumeing close to stock stock weight)
rule 1....you use the non drive wheels to controle body roll.
rule 2....sway bars reduce grip so you run the smallest you can get away with...

Timmerrr

Ya I have come to the same conclusion I came across your thread here Picking custom spring rates for suspension tuning * revised* - Club EP3 Message Board
That was very informative and now I understand all the math behind how to choose the right rates... Seeing as no one has a kit with rates that high that isn't custom I guess I will just go with the progress coilovers and see if I can get a little stiffer spring in the back. That or BC BR's with 8K front 12K rear or maybe a 6K or 7K front if i can get springs in those rates... That seems to be the best compromise in my eyes, a much stiffer rear spring but still not too obnoxious. From what I've read it should handle ok just not as well as a full blown race car. Why did I have to fall in love with such a difficult chassis?

mustclime

you want to know what I am running....the 05-06 a-spec kit with camber plates, bushings and a better alinment....read this...

Acura RSX Type-S A-Spec First Drive ? Full Review of the New Acura RSX Type-S A-Spec - Road & Track

Honda did all the tuning for you...its a great kit for dd + autox...I do recoment the rear sway as well

Timmerrr

If you think that's the best way to go I guess I really can't argue seeing as i really don't have much experience tuning any suspension let alone on a chassis that is hard to get set up properly. I already have a 21mm bar in the back, definitely the best mod I have done since my aem v2 intake, which sounded cool but the sway bar made the biggest change in the way the car drives. Also you seem to have a pretty good knowledge of the classing of the scca would the Cusco bars be legal in stf? https://honda-tech.com/acura-rsx-dc5.../#post44974550 I would really like to get a harness in the car to stay planted in the seat a little better. Ill post a video of me auto crossing when I get home so you guys can see what the car does.

mustclime

doing any bars before changing the compliance bushings is just plain silly....the stock compliance bushings are set for 195 mm allseason tires........

If you do not know what the compliance bushings are...at the front of both the front and rear lower control arms (lca) are compliance bushings, the bushing flex under cornering load and are set for the tires that come on the car. Since the ep3 and base dc5 have allseason tires that have pretty much no grip, they are really soft. When you put some bigger stickie tires on the bushing go to max gush in every turn very fast.........

Gee musty, what the h*ll does tha mean?.....

The c-bushings are at the front of the lca's....in the front, they add toe in(Less happy with turn in in the turn... understeer), in the rear they add they add toe out( more happy with turn in in the turn and since this in the back...more under steer).....soooo compliance bushing add understeer and with sticky tires it gets much worse( think of it as 4ws but in a way that hurts handling).....

getting all these Bars to tie down your suspension when you have gooy bushings that are allowing big changes in toe settings is money out the window imo. My car has a full energy suspension bushing setup and aside from my lsd and stickie tires, it was the single greatest thing I did to my car for handleing....the bushings do a couple things...

1)they kill the toe changes in mid turn....
2) they free up the suspension...all the stock bushings have fused centers and add a progressive spring rate to your suspension...the energy bushing do not have this.....If you do not understand what I am talking about...detach your sway and strut and try to move the lca .....the resistance you feel are the bushings.

btw....doing the bushings on these cars is a huge job and if you do not have a press( like I don't) ,it requires you to know your sh*t and think out side the box....

If you decide to pay someone to do this.....check their work, I have seen shops quit halfway through the job because it sucked so much and not tell the customer..........

Timmerrr

Well then haha. I though I was finally starting to get this chassis figured out... I do not have the ability to do bushings on my own. I do have a great shop that I would trust to do the work but the bigger problem is how much the labor would cost if it is as difficult as you say. I guess instead of some of the other things I wanted to do i will be looking at having the bushings done. As far as motor mounts go, something like hasport is the better option over the ES insterts correct? If I really do have to rip the whole car apart I want to do it once and have everything right so I don't have to do it again. here's 2 videos of some of my better runs earlier this season. Excuse the shuffle steering I have since fixed that.

Blue-Civic-Hybrid

iTrader: (1)

This was the suspension thread I was looking for! Great information!

mustclime

Yea...stay away from the inserts....think about it for a second....lets put some hard plastic inserts into some soft rubber mounts....the hard plastic tends to just cut up the soft rubber utill the rubber fails.when I changed the motor mounts on my ep, the front mount( front of the car) had already failed...and that was with 40,000 miles. I like the steel ones better( thats what I use), the billit was harder to fit the trans mount because they were so thick.

Timmerrr

Ok thanks for the help mustclime. I hope my questions help more people out that have the same questions. Any comments on the driving? I know there's a lot of time out there as a driver, then more time with a few more suspension tweaks and a more aggressive alignment. It's really an endless circle, I really understand why some of the guys have been at it for 30+ years just keep coming back.

mustclime

Yea....don't ware wifebeaters......

Timmerrr

Hey it was like 90* out haha. I did forget to put sunscreen on my arms and chest so I payed the price.

mustclime

I was kinda joking but not.....there are a number of people in my autoX club that have gotten skin canser....a Sombrero is your friend.

DC5nub

Nice driving! Were you getting rotation in the rear in those videos? It looked like it to me.

Timmerrr

Thanks and yes I do get some rotation with a little bit of trail braking or backing out of the throttle mid corner. I don't have any of the other videos anymore seeing as that was my friends gopro and I'm at school, but I actually managed to spin the car once. For how cheep and not good the suspension set up I'm on should be, the car handles pretty well on the auto cross course(not so much on the street anymore). The 21 mm rear bar made it way better. As a first year driver I've learned a lot. I can't wait to get on new race tires next year, not 12 year old azenis...