paulITR

I'm rebuilding my B18C5 hoping to go in the 210 whp and 135lb/ft ball park with a broad powerband (6-8.5 rpm).

Set up is:
stock bore & stroke
11.8 compression
Alaniz full competition head work
ITR intake manifold ported and polished by Alaniz
ITR t/b ported to 65 mm. by Alaniz
Skunk2 stage 2 cams
Toda springs & cam gears
Hondata S200 & heat shield
Bosch 4 nozzles 380 cc. saturated injectors
Mugen intake
Mugen JDM 4-1 header and twin loop exaust with full 2.36 backpipe (modified)Carsound 94006 2.5 cat
Fuel 94 oct.
JDM gear box

I think my setup to be good for my goal, but i'm scare to have not the best compression to take full advantage of the S2 stage 2 and Mugen header and 2.36 exaust pipe to be a bit restrictive to go over the 200 whp.
Plus will be a restriction in diameter going from the 2.5 header/cat to the 2.36 exaust that could cause reversion.

Might i go with higher compression ?
Better header ?
Porting Mugen header and a full 2.5 exaust will make the trick?

B2FiNiTY

iTrader: (2)

Get a more free flowing header and exhaust

paulITR

Do you believe will be enought if i'll only get a better header?
And is compression ok?

#1151

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B2FiNiTY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Get a more free flowing header and exhaust </TD></TR></TABLE> smsp..iiizzzzllleeee that header will bring you there.

B2FiNiTY

iTrader: (2)

A much better header such as a SMS header can bring the power up all throughout the powerband significantly.

Compression shouldn't be your biggest concern.

totsie7944

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by paulITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do you believe will be enought if i'll only get a better header?
And is compression ok?</TD></TR></TABLE>


Hmmm sorry I dunno about 210, maybe 200. you will need a better header and exahust, maybe even run a test pipe instead of a cat. with some higher compression and the above you should def be over 200, maybe even 215.

totsie7944

how much can stock ITR axles handle anyway? 215 wheel?

paulITR

Or an Hytech... of course

paulITR

Where will be torque with the S2 stage 2 since i often see them to lack a bit.

totsie7944

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by paulITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Where will be torque with the S2 stage 2 since i often see them to lack a bit.</TD></TR></TABLE>

what exaclty are you asking? Where the power in the band will be? or if they do make good power?

paulITR

Some time my english isn't so clear, but is my second language.

I'm asking about torque values on similar set up.

totsie7944

well I cannot tell you anything for sure. YOu will just have to tune and dyno it. Your set up should be putting down pretty good torque compared to stock though.

I dunno man maybe 150 ft/lbs? Just a guess, probably around that area with a good tuner.

Anyone else have a guess?

paulITR

From what i have seen the stage 2 are at best on 130-135lb/ft torque value on a stock ITR head.
I hope that the Alaniz head work could push it up for me, but to reach the 150 ft/lbs you guess it's mandatory a 2.0 lt.

vtec.dc2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by totsie7944 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how much can stock ITR axles handle anyway? 215 wheel?</TD></TR></TABLE>

they can handle a whole lot more than that.. lots of it depends on ride height.. mine is stock few grand shy from 90k

digital sol

iTrader: (1)

tired of listening to bs


Modified by digital sol at 10:58 AM 2/16/2005

justahobbie

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by digital sol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why dont you just get the head fully built the right way, dont pick out your heads internals, let the shop do that after they flow test your head, then let them pick the best cam for your needs and let them build the head for that cam and make 210+whp on a regular 2.5" header, regular exhaust, and regular 3" intake. Each head flows different and there are so many calculations and mathamatics that must be used while building a good head. You can do what most people do and just buy some cams, buy some valves and retainers but your just wasting time and money or you can do it right the first time and put down incredible numbers with basic mods and a very well built head.

Get your head built the right way the first time and what ever intake and exhaust you want to run wont matter because it will put down at least 210whp anyways.

im going to be running the following:

98 jdm itr
2.5" greddy exhaust
3" short ram intake
jdm header
high flow cat
hondata
and a professionally fully built head including cams

my numbers will be around 220-230whp, i wont even be touching the bottom end, obviously higher after i get around to upgrading the things that would be holding back power like a better header and cat, but those are things you do after you get the main power supply down to a patent.


i dont see why people spend $1400 on a header, $300 on a intake and $800 for a "race" exhaust and bearly making 200whp when they could just get a head built the proper way for around $2 grand and make more whp with basic bolt on's.

if you want the shops number send me a pm, he does extrodinary work, builds anything you want and if you ask questions he will sit on the phone and chat for days on end, you get what you pay for, he is by far the best builder ive ever come across, ill be sending him my head in a few months after ive saved enough $, takes about 2-4 weeks to properly get everything done, time mostly depends on machine shop and ordering the parts needed

dosnt matter if you spend $1000, $2000, $3000 or $4000 on a head, if you dont match parts to flow with your heads individual characteristics and setup the head to run at the cams needs all you"ve done is put good parts to waste

you"ve already chosen your parts by looking at specs online but you havnt even had the head flow tested, theres alot that goes into building a head then just buying high quality parts</TD></TR></TABLE>

Very nicely put.

Oh-and it makes no sense to have that small exhaust. You have a decent intake and header but no decent way of expelling the bi-product. (Exhaust) Needs to flow. Just my opinion...

digital sol

iTrader: (1)

tired of listening to bs


Modified by digital sol at 10:58 AM 2/16/2005

paulITR

I have just to clear something.

I didn't build the head and picked the parts looking to the catalogue specs.

Cams and compression were recommended by Joe Alaniz who told me that the head work he done on the head matched perfectly with the Skunk2 stage 2 and to not push up more the compression to conserve reliability.

I do not live in the States but in Italy and in my country there are not reputable Honda tuners. And Alaniz is to busy to answer to my tuning set up questions.

Then i ask on this board trying to solve my doubts.
I think to have a restriction on the header side but i would be sure that a top notch header would give significant gains, meaning in my book bring me well over the 210 whp and 135 lb/ft threshold and that i would not need higher compression.

digital sol:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by digital sol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
if you want the shops number send me a pm, he does extrodinary work, builds anything you want and if you ask questions he will sit on the phone and chat for days on end, match parts to flow with your heads individual characteristics and setup the head to run at the cams needs all you"ve done is put good parts to waste
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for your collaboration offer, but like i told i'm from an other country and will be difficult for me to chat with your tuner, but i have to say that i remeber on Alaniz website a civic with LS block, Skunk2 stage 3, full head work, 13:1 compression, etc. to be at 225 whp.
So, i don't know who's your tuner, but i find hard to believe that with stock block and compression his magic will bring your engine in the 220-230 whp word.

SLCTyper

That's a good setup, but a few things I noticed:
1) No mention of retainers. Portflow would be a good option as well as JUN (not the original retainers but the newer model)

2) Just an opinion, but for high performance cams, Skunk2 falls towards the end of my list. If Alaniz is comfortable installing them, then that's a big plus but I'm a much bigger fan of JUN 3's or Toda C's (if you want a little better midrange)

3) Already been mentioned, but you need a better exhaust setup. Can't go wrong with Hytech or SMSP.

Other than that, sounds good for your 210hp 135lb goal

Type-Rare#1248

i think your setup will bring you close to 210whp

If I were you, I'd get a better header (which should put you over the 210whp barrier)

paulITR

I run stock retainers since i wouldn't have wearing problems with the titanium.

Alaniz told me "i recommend S2 stage 2 cams" that will work very well with my compressione and head work.
The stage 2 cams have specs similar to Jun 3 so i don't understand why to prefer the Jun over the Skunk.


My concern is if i might upgrade only the header or the exaust too.

So would like to know which gains will give to my set up a mere header (Hytech or SMSP) and an header and catback sistem.

I'm also thinking to change the back pipe for a custom 2.5 one and keep the Mugen twin loop muffler that has a beautiful sound.

How do you judge this solution?


Modified by paulITR at 2:59 PM 2/16/2005


Modified by paulITR at 3:02 PM 2/16/2005

totsie7944

hytech and smsp should be very close in power.

88 rex

Just throwing this out there.........


A lightened flywheel could help put some extra power to the ground if you haven't done that yet. I don't know how much, but I guess every little bit helps when you're tryin to get to 210 whp.

paulITR

Ops,
i forgot to write that i still have a Toda flywheel.
And what about changing the back pipe for a custom 2.5 and keeping the twin loop muffler?

Bbasso

smsp full exhuast, good intake such as comptech or mugen, and a programable ECU brings the ITR power to 180-190 range.
I don't see why you would have any problems hitting that with what you have. To get a few more hp get yourself the best exhaust you can afford.