program

Where do you draw the line between sports car and super car. Could an ITR (modified of course) actually be a front wheel drive super car?

Basic performance requirements for a super car:
-lateral grip of 1.0 G or more.
-standing quarter mile of 12.0 sec. or less.
-top speed of 180 or more.
-and of course be able to be daily driven. Although it wouldn't be, super cars rarely are.
-All on the same rubber with no adjustments AND pass the sniffer.

These are my goals, and i think they are achievable. would that qualify as a super car?
So then in your opinion what makes a car a super car? just the price tag?

Reid

There's no such thing as a FWD "super car", IMHO.

One of the first requirements for a "super car" would be that its rear wheels actually help to propel the vehicle forward.

JDMInspired

well if u take off that requrement i guess ys
itrs can break low 13's high 12s N/A.. I/h/e with hondata and maybe headwork and maybe a stroker kit =D .. no turboss to keep it reliable

setup a good suspension with sticky rubber

180mph.. hmm maybe 160

daily of course

pass da sniffer.. yep keep ur cat

Erik95LS

To me a supercar has always been something mid-engine and at least rear-wheel drive that can hit at least 180mph in its stock form from whoever produced it. Also must have a price tag of at least $150k.

These are just my personal requirements for me to call something a supercar. The ITR to me is not nor shall it ever be.

HybridGSR1

raceline's ITR is pretty much a supercar then.. based on your specifications

top speed - bonneville 193 mph
1/4 time - 10.84
buttonwillow time attack winner in limited fwd

Reid

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Erik95LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To me a supercar has always been something mid-engine and at least rear-wheel drive that can hit at least 180mph in its stock form from whoever produced it. Also must have a price tag of at least $150k.

These are just my personal requirements for me to call something a supercar. The ITR to me is not nor shall it ever be. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree with this.

Price does play a role in being a supercar. It has to be something that is unattainable for most people.

Ed 341

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Erik95LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To me a supercar has always been something mid-engine and at least rear-wheel drive that can hit at least 180mph in its stock form from whoever produced it. Also must have a price tag of at least $150k.

These are just my personal requirements for me to call something a supercar. The ITR to me is not nor shall it ever be. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Its an interesting topic, so I thought I should address this. Ferrari has produced a lot of front engined cars. I know the ITR is no Ferrari but bear with me. I think this has everything to do with how we classify cars. If how you classify a super car is one with a mid engine/rear drive $150,000 plus, then that disqualifies the 911 turbo, 612 Scaglietti and others. If you set performance numbers as a requirement, not the layout, it potentially qualifies many more cars. Personally my performance numbers would include a 4 second or less 0-60 time.

Just my opinion

Dave_B

Great car, yes
Supercar, no

len

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dave_B &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Great car, yes
Supercar, no</TD></TR></TABLE>

Somebody end this thread already please before I end myself.

-Let me add that in order to be a supercar, when you roll up in valet parking, they fight to park your car.

-People randomly drool over your car for hours at a time waiting for you to come out to start the car and drive off.

-Women randomly through panties through your topless supercar while driving at speeds in excess of 200mph.

RTW DC2R

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by len &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Somebody end this thread already please before I end myself.

-Let me add that in order to be a supercar, when you roll up in valet parking, they fight to park your car.

-People randomly drool over your car for hours at a time waiting for you to come out to start the car and drive off.

-Women randomly through panties through your topless supercar while driving at speeds in excess of 200mph.</TD></TR></TABLE>

this happens to me all the time I dont see what the problem is?

supercar? no. if your criteria were the definition of supercar, just about any car on the planet could a supercar with the right amount of money invested. the key is for it to be STOCK and EXPENSIVE.

ReggaePoweredDC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Reid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Price does play a role in being a supercar. It has to be something that is unattainable for most people.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree with this.

1GreyTeg

Absolutely NOT.

The following definition supports what Many of us and especially in the automotive world expect from the term "Supercar". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercar

"A supercar is a term used for a sports car, typically an exotic or rare one, whose performance is highly superlative to its contemporary sports cars. The proper application of this term is subjective and disputed, especially among enthusiasts. In addition, the use of the term is dependent on the era; a vehicle that is considered to be a supercar at one time may not retain its superiority in the future. Nonetheless, the automotive press frequently calls new exotic cars "supercars". Also see the list of supercars to help understand the term subjectively."

"High power-to-weight ratio — most supercars have high engine power and low vehicle weight, for the sake of high acceleration (see Newton's Second Law) and top speed. For example, the 2004 Porsche Carrera GT carries just five pounds per horsepower (3 kg/kW or 438 hp/Mg) — compare this to the Porsche Boxster which hauls nearly 12 pounds per horsepower (7.1 kg/kW or 193 bhp/Mg). The McLaren F1, introduced in 1991 and widely considered as one of the fastest supercars of the 20th century, produced 627.1 hp (467.6 kW) against a weight of 2513 pounds (1140 kg), translating to 550 hp per 1000 kilograms or 4 pounds per horsepower. Certain vehicles have a high power-to-weight ratio despite having a heavy weight, due to a powerful engine output. For example, the Bugatti Veyron carries 4.3 pounds per horsepower despite weighing 4299 pounds (1950 kg, including fuel[1]), due to its 1001 PS (987 SAE hp/736kW) engine."

"High Acceleration — supercars, by the usual definition, have extremely quick acceleration compared to most vehicles, including ordinary sports cars. Some current expectations are as follow:
0 to 60 mph (96.56 km/h): Under 4 seconds for virtually all supercars today. The McLaren F1 has a 0 to 60 mph time of about 3.2 seconds. The Bugatti Veyron has a 0-60 time of 2.5 seconds.
0 to 100 mph (160.9 km/h): Under 10 seconds is generally called for, with undisputed supercars being significantly faster. The Ferrari Enzo, introduced in 2002, has a 0 to 100 mph time of about 6.5 seconds. McLaren F1 could do it in 6.3 seconds.
Standing Quarter-Mile (402.3 meters): Under 13 seconds is arguably a requirement, as is a trap or terminal speed of at least 110 mph (177 km/h).
The Ferrari Enzo completes the quarter mile from a stop in about 11.1 seconds at 133 mph (214 km/h).
The Koenigsegg CCR, introduced in 2004, is officially claimed to run the quarter mile in "9 seconds, end speed 235 km/h (146 mph)" [2]
It should be noted here, however, that the term supercar usually refers to particular models of factory-built, street-legal sports cars, which tend to be perceived as unmodified; heavily modified and potentially street-illegal vehicles can often accelerate faster than any production car, requiring well under 10 seconds in the quarter mile. Because supercars are usually designed for road use as opposed to drag racing or straight-line racing alone, their standard equipment often do not include roll cages and other mandatory requirements for fast cars on a dragstrip.
High Top Speed — Today, undisputed supercars can exceed at least 300 km/h or about 186 mph (even with a top speed of close to 300 km/h, the Ferrari 360 is usually not considered a true supercar). Among many enthusiasts, a simple supercar requirement is the ability to break 200 mph (321.9 km/h). The fastest models today have speeds exceeding 225mph (362 km/h).
On February 28, 2005, the Koenigsegg CCR with 806 hp (601 kW) achieved a top speed of 387.87 km/h (241.01 mph) on default settings. The car was driven on Italy's Nardo Prototipo proving ground, a circular track with a circumference of 12.5 km. This exceeded the McLaren's record.[3]
On May 20, 2005, the Bugatti Veyron 16.4 achieved a two-way average speed of 400 km/h (248.5 mph)(limited) at parent company Volkswagen's Ehra-Lessien test track. This exceeded the Koenigsegg's record. The Veyron can do 0-200mph in just under 14 seconds which is quicker than the Mclaren F1 can even do 120-200mph[4]

Superb Handling — In contrast to a sports car which simply has a more 'sporty' or involving handling than a normal hatchback or saloon, a supercar is usually built for maximum cornering and road gripping ability in order to achieve superior racing times."

"In addition to performance, the following criteria are also cited in determining if a particular sports car or exotic car deserves the supercar moniker:

Styling — Supercars often feature groundbreaking styling elements. The Formula One-inspired Enzo Ferrari, for example, set a new styling direction for that company.
Focused design — Supercars are not designed to be practical transportation devices, with functionality varying widely between different examples. Many car body styles (including 2+2 coupe, station wagon, and pickup truck) make inherent tradeoffs of performance potential for utility. By this measure, extreme vehicles like the Dodge Ram SRT-10 are not normally called supercars (in the case of Dodge Ram SRT-10, it is classified as a truck, not car, so the car-based description would not fit anyway). While one undisputed supercar, the McLaren F1, featured seating for three (and had a number of useful storage spaces), performance was not sacrificed, but instead improved by the seating design: the driver's central position lowered the vehicle's moment of inertia and increased its turning ability.
Technology — All supercars feature cutting edge contemporary racing car technology. This has included the use of carbon fibre and ceramics, ground effects and wings, and novel layouts like mid-engine. The use of turbochargers has fallen out of favor in many recent supercars, though the Bugatti Veyron uses four. All wheel drive is also used in some modern supercars, reflecting the success of the Audi Quattro rally car. Rear wheel drive is still used most often.
Production — Most commentators would not include one-off concept cars or self-built kit cars under this category. Although no objective metric has been agreed on, homologation often makes the case for a supercar. Similarly, the term is never applied to a pure racing car — supercars must be legal for use on the street. Although their makers often promise to produce dozens of examples, some supercars never reach these production targets. For example, while 400 Enzos were built, just two Mosler Photons have been sold.
Special Orders — Some manufacturers have programs for car dealers, which allow dealers to order and sell specialized street vehicles that would otherwise be left unbuilt. Those cars are built by the automobile manufacturers, and may come with factory warranty. Special programs such as COPO were used by dealers in the muscle car era to sell supercars with unequal performance, even by standards of the era.
Spirit — An extremely difficult aspect to objectively discuss is the "spirit" or "soul" many supercar buyers search for. This is often more a reflection of the manufacturer's reputation, especially on the race track, than the absolute qualities of the vehicle in question. This factor is often cited in disqualifying cars like the Honda/Acura NSX and Dodge/Chrysler Viper and including even the lesser V12-powered Ferraris."

In closing the ITR is a great car amongst it's owners and followers but to even consider it a supercar is the biggest exaggeration of it's abilities I've ever laughed at when hearing.

Following is a list that Wiki provided for Supercars through the years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_supercars Notice the NSX didn't make it which I'm sure some might disagree with.


Please close this thread.

Larkin W.

Absolutely NOT!

ITR is a high performance Econo-car in all honesty. Its a great car, but definitely is far from supercar status.

I would classify the ITR as a true drivers car

Ross

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ed 341 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> If you set performance numbers as a requirement, not the layout, it potentially qualifies many more cars. Personally my performance numbers would include a 4 second or less 0-60 time. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, that's a little silly. That would disqualify a good number of Ferraris, Lambos, and Porsches from over the years. I don't care how old the Testarossa is, it's sstill a supercar.

And as far as the ITR is concerned...not a supercar. But it's still the most well-rounded sportscar out there, and can outbrake some supercars in stock form.

Nuts

On-Topic.

Absolutely not, not when it first introduced, not now, not even in 50 years down the road, ITR will not be classified as a Supercar.

Off-Topic.

Thread starter, tell me that's not a picture of yourself in your avator.

white rocket

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RTW DC2R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this happens to me all the time I dont see what the problem is? </TD></TR></TABLE>

x2

Ross

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Nuts &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">On-Topic.

Absolutely not, not when it first introduced, not now, not even in 50 years down the road, ITR will not be classified as a Supercar.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's on Supercars.net.

It will never be considered a 'supercar' because of a variety of factors:

1. Engine is in the Front, driving the Front wheels.
2. Power output and cylinder count are too low.
3. It's based on a Honda Civic.
4. It's too affordable.

However, those are all snob categories. The ITR can out-brake almost anything made, even today, and its slalom speed & lateral acceleration are still probably in the top 5% of cars ever produced.

Driven properly, it can out-accelerate the Testarossa that Don Johnson drove in Miami Vice. And given adequate rubber and brakes, it can turn similar lap times to any car with a similar power/weight ratio, which include Porsches, M3s, and other high-dollar cars.

Let's also not forget that its specific power output, power peak, and piston speeds are tops in most of the automotive world. Its level of driver involvement is better than most cars out there, and it was produced in smaller numbers than a lot of 'supercars.'

If your definition of 'supercar' revolves around fixed criteria like cost, HP, # of cylinders, wheels driven, or maintenance costs, then the ITR doesn't qualify. But I think there's a legitimate argument to be made on the grounds of the overall driving experience the car offers.

JjuuN R

super car, hell NO... great FWD sports car, hell YES...

Ross

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JUN.R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">super car, hell NO... great FWD sports car, hell YES...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Honestly, I don't even think it needs the "FWD" modifier. The ITR is a lot better than a good chunk of RWD cars, and deserves to be considered in the same breadth. Saying "FWD sports car" is like putting the ITR in the Special Olympics.

nholmes

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dave_B &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Great car, yes
Supercar, no</TD></TR></TABLE>

AbeFroeman

booooooooooo for arbitrary arguements








...shut up and drive

Moxy

Of course not did you post this thread as a joke???

SOOOOO many cars can beat an ITR, (of course unless you put performance parts on it)

Well now I never heard of a super car being souped up or anything have you?
Their are fast from factory and trying to put performance parts on a super car would be either extremely expensive or really freakin difficult.

JjuuN R

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ross R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Honestly, I don't even think it needs the "FWD" modifier. The ITR is a lot better than a good chunk of RWD cars, and deserves to be considered in the same breadth. Saying "FWD sports car" is like putting the ITR in the Special Olympics.</TD></TR></TABLE>
you're right...
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Moxy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Of course not did you post this thread as a joke???

SOOOOO many cars can beat an ITR, (of course unless you put performance parts on it)

Well now I never heard of a super car being souped up or anything have you?
Their are fast from factory and trying to put performance parts on a super car would be either extremely expensive or really freakin difficult. </TD></TR></TABLE>
so many cars can beat an ITR in what?? i hope you're not talking about the 1320 because frankly no one gives a **** about that... so tell me exactly what you mean, please

warwagon

supercar no... but can more itr owners out drive the supercar owners... probably

JjuuN R

maybe AustrianITR will come and chime in