illicon2003

Well alright, first off I'd like to say that I've done some research on this topic, but would like to get some feedback/opinions/owner - related facts about the ITR's handling. What makes it so good? I'd like to know, since I would like to improve the handling on my civic. I know the ITR's came with big rear sway bars (22mm I believe), and factory front and rear strut tower bars. I believe the front tie bar and crossmember are also stiffer than other integra models. Finally, the lower control arms are different, and the springs stiffer? I greatly appreciate your help and if you know of any interchangibility between the two, please give a hand. Thanks much .

BlueR

iTrader: (10)

didn't you just answer your own question

all that stuff above + the fact that honda designed it all as one harmonious package

they didn't piece together parts like we do

CW-ITR-329

I believe the rear sub-frame is different also, which would make a big difference.

TigRo703

You pretty much covered it all.. but one thing you are missing is the type R LSD. That alone helps out so much and paired with its superb suspension and bars makes it one of the best handling FWD made (in my opinion)

BlueR

iTrader: (10)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TigRo703 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You pretty much covered it all.. but one thing you are missing is the type R LSD. That alone helps out so much and paired with its superb suspension and bars makes it one of the best handling FWD made (in my opinion)</TD></TR></TABLE>

good point, i forgot all about that

Flux

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by illicon2003 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What makes it so good? I'd like to know, since I would like to improve the handling on my civic. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Simply taking what is on the ITR and puting it on your civic will not necessarily make your can handle better. You have to take into account your car's weight, chassis dynamics, etc.

You can certainly learn from the ITR and apply the knowledge to your own custom set-up that is tuned specifically to your car.

illicon2003

thanks I appreciate it. Anyone else know interchangibility??

v t e c 2 3

purchase an itr.. u'll be glad u did..

00R101

Bushing material is harder; end links on front sway bar; extra chassis stiffener at rear and in c-pillars.

Ohh, and did anyone mention that some of the worlds best chassis engineers tweaked it on the racetrack for a year? Getting this laundry list of parts installed on your Civic will help its handling, but without some real expert tuning and time it will never handle like an ITR.

Justin Klemgold

Instead of copying someone else's setup like everyone tries to do nowadays, do some research and learn about the car and it's dynamics. And what happens when you corner hard and whatnot.

And I don't think it's been mentioned, but the type-R's chassis is 15% tighter than all other Integras...and that's before the braces are put on.

Bbasso

Here are somethings that can't be changed in a Civic:

Kamil

I'm surprised no one has said anything about the most basic component... TIRES!!

...and the loose nut behind the wheel

StyleTEG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bbasso &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here are somethings that can't be changed in a Civic:

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Lots of those can

1. Aluminum front strut tower bar.

You can get a front strut bar

2. Larger upper pillars and a thicker roof rail have been added to increase safety in the event of a high speed collision resulting in a roll-over (this is a track car remember).

Roll bar will increase the safety

3. The rear wheelhouse and arch extension have been made thicker and stronger to increase overall stiffness in the rear and help reduce understeer.

This is would be hard to do. Welded in cage/bar would stiffen up that area though.

4. Thicker rear damper gussets have been equipped to handle the increased coilover stiffness and sway bar size.

Don't think this can be done easily

5. The rear lower arm bracket has been strengthened to meet the demands of the larger 22mm sway bar.

Subframe, there is someone in the Road Racing forum selling a subframe plate that would no doubt increase the stiffness in the same manor.

6. An aluminum tie bar has been fitted to the rear crossmember

Lower tie bar, can be installed

7. Another polished aluminum bar has been attached to the absolute rear of the chassis to aid in minimizing chassis flex in the rear.

Trunk brace, can be installed

GettaluvR

some people never understand, when you have a b18c5 in your civic hb doesnt mean your civic is same as ctr or itr, the car may be faster than the real itr/ctr but it will never handle the same because the chasis is not the same design, by putting aftermarket suspension sway bar ..etc will not be same stiff as type-r still, ctr/itr has unique chasis that was designed and tested over and over.
if everyone can understand this i believe there will not be so many itr get stolen.
may be i can still have my car if everyone understand it

once again for all the reg integra civic out there, have a b18c5 aftermarket suspension all the strut bar sway bar, your car will not handle better than type-r, the only way is to buy a real type-r, not just the parts

Nuts

The steering ratio?

illicon2003

A different steering gearbox, thanks. I really would like an ITR, but honestly I can't afford it. I'm asking these questions since it's obvious that the ITR handles well, and if I could model, not copy, my suspension after it, then I think the civic would handle much better (Even if it's not as good as an ITR).

PS: Does anyone have any handy links on suspension stuff. I haven't turned up much that hasn't already been mentioned.

disordeR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Nuts &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The steering ratio? </TD></TR></TABLE>

i don't think it's that quick...

Justin Klemgold

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GettaluvR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">some people never understand, when you have a b18c5 in your civic hb doesnt mean your civic is same as ctr or itr, the car may be faster than the real itr/ctr but it will never handle the same because the chasis is not the same design, by putting aftermarket suspension sway bar ..etc will not be same stiff as type-r still, ctr/itr has unique chasis that was designed and tested over and over.
if everyone can understand this i believe there will not be so many itr get stolen.
may be i can still have my car if everyone understand it

once again for all the reg integra civic out there, have a b18c5 aftermarket suspension all the strut bar sway bar, your car will not handle better than type-r, the only way is to buy a real type-r, not just the parts

</TD></TR></TABLE>

You didn't read anything Styleteg said, did you? Some of you fellow R owners make yourselves look so bad. Some of you act like the Type R is the baddest car out there....newsflash, it isn't. It' s a great car and I love mine to death, but it's just a car. You get your ego so far inflated like you are untouchable...

Mugen Type R

when tunning a civic, there's a point of no return, once you start, you'll modd it to hell, doing so, you'll realise that after you've spent all your money and time in the car you could have afforded a Type R...

Thats comming from a stupid guy a know who modded 30k into his civic and still envy's the **** out of me for having the Real Deal
not to mention he's lucky if he's insured for 10k... or insured at all..

something to think about man

GettaluvR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Justin Klemgold &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You didn't read anything Styleteg said, did you? Some of you fellow R owners make yourselves look so bad. Some of you act like the Type R is the baddest car out there....newsflash, it isn't. It' s a great car and I love mine to death, but it's just a car. You get your ego so far inflated like you are untouchable... </TD></TR></TABLE>
well the type-r is the baddest car in honda's family, same is M in bmw family's. i'm just try to point out that if people can understand the difference between NON R and R there will never be this much R get stolen.

trust me if one day you car get stolen and after few month you see your engine suspension in another civic with all type-r sticks everywhere in the police station you will know how i feel.

Justin Klemgold

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GettaluvR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
well the type-r is the baddest car in honda's family, same is M in bmw family's. i'm just try to point out that if people can understand the difference between NON R and R there will never be this much R get stolen.

trust me if one day you car get stolen and after few month you see your engine suspension in another civic with all type-r sticks everywhere in the police station you will know how i feel.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So that allows you to feel like an elitist? I remember the S2000 and NSX being in the "honda family" they are pretty badass, no?

Fac3Man

You're still in the "im a bitter R owner" stage now.

When I drive my car I do think I'm driving the baddest Honda out there (even though I'm not and I dont act like I do). Man have some pride in your car and quit putting it down like you did in the other post. Peace.

illicon2003

I cannot afford the insurance since I live in one of the worst areas for car theft in the country, NOVA.. As for the upgrades, I can always buy used, sell used, and not lose too much.

Justin Klemgold

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Fac3Man &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You're still in the "im a bitter R owner" stage now.

When I drive my car I do think I'm driving the baddest Honda out there (even though I'm not and I dont act like I do). Man have some pride in your car and quit putting it down like you did in the other post. Peace.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I am not bitter at all, you are just an elitist. Why would I be bitter because I own a type-R? Seriously man, that is the lamest argument I have ever heard. I have a lot of pride in my car, so much so that I pay 40 bucks a month to put it in a climate controlled winter storage. So much so that I bought a beater so I don't have to drive it in the winter. I rarely even drive it in the rain.

It's one thing to think you have a great car, it's another thing to think you are the baddest ************ out there. Eventually, you'll get brought back down to earth.


It's just a caaaaar, get over yourself. It's a 25k car (new). Don't act like you're driving around a Diablo.

StyleTEG

Justin is just realistic. I would bet he takes better care of his car than 90% of the ITR owners. No lack of pride there.

The CTR/ITR is an incredible car, hands above almost all of the other stock cars that honda makes (S2K, NSX).

However its pretty much kidding yourself to think that some mild chassis reenforcement is going to handle better in stock form compared to an excellently setup civic/integra/etc.

I love the ITR, I have two friends that have them and they are incredible. But there is so much misinformation, and extreme blown out of proportion, when it comes to what is actually done to the chassis.