rob696

98 Spec Type R with S80 LSD Manual Transmission has suddenly developed a problem with gear shifting. On startup with the engine cold gears are smooth as butter, no sticking, grinding or difficulty in shifting. However, once the car has reached its operating temperatures, the stick takes more and more effort to get it in to gear. The problem is not with just one gear but all 5 and even reverse.

I have already done the following to fix the problem but to no avail.

1. Changed Honda MTF Fluid
2. Drained, replaced, bled clutch fluid.
3. Inspected Gear Lever and its linkage - Result A OK
4. Inspected Engine mounts for wear - Result A OK

Let me also share that problem does not seem to be clutch since even if I turn off a hot motor, the gears remain very hard to shift. With the engine running shift problem could be clutch but with engine off clutch is ruled out. Moreover, why is it that on Cold Temperature the gears work just fine? Problem comes only when engine gets HOT (Operating Temperature)

Please help.

Rob

gosu08

Have you checked your synchros. This happened to me and I could not get into 4th gear. Felt like I was hitting a wall.

citrus3000psi

Doesn't sound like a syncro problem because its every gear, and happened suddenly.....

Makes me think something with the linkage... Are you using a stock shifter or something aftermarket? I had a similar problem, with and old shifter, but the stickyness/hardness with shifting would be much more noticeable after/during a rain. I thought something was wrong with the trans, but didn't make sense. After the car cooled down, it shifted fine. I switch to a fastline shifter and the problem went away.

d=f20c1

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like ur slave is not fully disengaging when u push the clutch in. Try replacing. They are cheap.

mafia

That or the clutch master cylinder.

c5stunna

sounds like a problem i once had with the pressure plate on my gsr. How old is your clutch?

c5stunna

i dont think it would make a difference hot/cold if it was the slave cylinder. right? sounds like something else

rob696

Ive ruled out synchro problem since its all gears and especially with engine off bad synchros arent responsible for difficult shifts.

The shifter, linkage is all honda, not replacement modification done to it. There is one little piece of info though, the car is not used everyday, maybe once a week.

Its very difficult to understand that everything is perfect with engine cold or mild warm, as it gets hot the shift becomes hard in all gears. Clutch? Pressure Plate? Shouldnt it remain hard even with engine cold? Also Slave. After reaching operating temperature, and as i turn off the engine and try to shift it remains hard.

With the engine cold, whether the engine is running or not shift is perfect.

With the engine hot, it is difficult to shift with engine running or turned off.

rob696

No replacement has been done to clutch or pressure plate or throw bearing, everything came installed from Honda factory.

Its a rarely used car has done like 40,000 odd miles. I follow months in maintenance schedule instead of mileage cuz there are hardly any miles on it.

markpaco

iTrader: (1)

Have you checked your clutch pedal free play? Long time ago, I made the mistake of setting my clutch free play too close and after the car heated up, I could not shift gears unless I rev matched. It didn't grind, it just felt like I was blocked out of all the gears. I am not sure what the mechanism is for that occurring but that is what happened. Perhaps you have the same problem.

panda215

u might wanna try to get ur trany oil refresh and make sure it is also filled in 2.2L as specif in service manual.

just_dung

iTrader: (2)

My buddy had a similar problem and thought his transmission was messed up, Speedfactory diagnose that the clutch pedal was sticking and readjusted the CMC.

Aquafina

iTrader: (3)

If it does it with the engine turned off and car not moving, it isn't an internal problem.

I would quit running the Honda MTF though. Non-synthetic 10w-30 or a good MTF like Torco.

rob696

MTF is fresh, filled 2.2 Liters i-e filled till oil starts coming out of pour plug with car on a level surface.

I will check the clutch travel and free play as suggested, on this weekend as per instructions in Honda Repair Manual.

With engine off, its doing the same, is beyond my understanding so i thought maybe someone has had similar issue. Lets see. Thanks everyone will keep you posted.

rob696

Alright guys I have returned after a long time. Notchy shift when Hot is still there. Replaced both OEM clutch master and slave cylinder. Refreshed MTF from dealership. Even dealership cant figure what could be the issue. I have read on some other websites the GM Synchromesh with added friction is good MTF for notchy shifts then others oppose using it cuz it as it increases wear. I want to remain with Honda MTF then other posts suggest using straight 10W 30 or 10W 40 motor oil in tranny as Honda never had MTF in earlier cars. What to do?

rob696

Exactly this is what is happening. It is kinda blocking all gears when the car is heated up (engine on or off, car stationery or moving doesnt change anything).

The free play has already been adjusted after Clutch master and slave replacement. hmm. Ill adjust it some more and see what happens. But with engine off it is still the same. hmmm should clutch free play be responsible with engine off? I dont know... ill give it a shot. Ill Reduce free play somewhat more and see what happens.

boostjunkie757

normally when the output/slave cylinder is going bad the problem it causes is grinding while changing gears..

Klasse

x2

d=f20c1

iTrader: (1)

I had the same exact issue on my R. Replaced the tranny oil, slave and master and still no fix. Ended up being a piece of my clutch broke off and stayed stuck between the clutch and flywheel. Makes sense as the clutch/pressure plate/flywheel will expand a little when it gets hot. I had to resurface my flywheel and installed new clutch and pressure plate. Problem fixed.

Good luck. I know you don't want to remove your transmission because I didn't want to either. But hey, I found and fixed my problem. And it helps that I do all the work to my R myself.

rob696

hmmm. was this piece of clutch stuck in between clutch disc and flywheel. ummmh. i thought clutch disc is constantly in contact with flywheel due to clamping force of pressure disc. hmmm. ill try and blow pressurised air in the flywheel area while pressing and releasing clutch pedal... if nothing helps ill go for clutch, pressure, thrust bearing and pilot bearing replacement. Hope it works..

rob696

thanks for sharing. there is literally no grinding before or after clutch master n slave cylinders were replaced. it just kindaa blocks on all gears as it reaches operating temps. Difficult to shift. I have noticed all gears become notchy after WOT. When cold it shifts smoothly and easily, no issue whatsoever.

Like someone suggested ill probably have to go for clutch disc, pressure disc, thrust n pilot bearing replacement, even though there is no slippage on the clutch. Hope it solves the issue.

donut.

It's your pressure plate.

d=f20c1

iTrader: (1)

Man I can't tell you yes because I removed the pressure plate and the piece fell down.

The clutch and flywheel were damaged so that led me to believe that the piece was stuck between them both.

Hope this helps.

FlewByU352

This. The Honda MTF is horrible with heat, and our transmissions are constantly turning faster than the others due to shorter gears, higher final drive, and I'm sure a helical limited slip builds up heat. I once switched to the GM Syncromesh and while it was holding up longer between changes I feel it is still a lateral move. My vote is Torco MTF possibly mixed with a little RTF if you drive the car hard.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Why are people talking about clutches and CMC engagements when OP said the trans shifts hard when the engine is OFF as well as on?

A clutch or CMC adjustment wont cure hard shifting with the car OFF.

OP...maybe look into having someone open up the trans. It could be a bad input/output shaft bearing that is making it harder for the synchros to work.

Honda MTF maybe has trouble when hot...like...enduro race hot. Not when the trans just becomes hot from street driving or even HPDE use.