E30 M3 vs ITR - Which would you choose?
12-12-2005, 07:08 PM
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E30 M3 vs ITR - Which would you choose?
The similarities are striking between the two. Which do you guys consider the best all around track/autox car? Both have almost identical power outputs, with similar power bands. They both weight almost the same. They are both share strong racing heritage. The E30 M3 is possibly one of the most successful race cars ever. The same could be said about the ITR. They both can be had for almost the same price. Both have a strong enthusiast following and large aftermarket support.
Which would you choose?
Explain.
Which would you choose?
Explain.
12-12-2005, 07:19 PM
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Re: E30 M3 vs ITR - Which would you choose? (WayneGro)
Seeing as how your last ITR was stolen, I would go with an E30 M3 to avoid the hassles. I'm sure you're familiar with the fact that any E30 M3 will cost you ~$15k.
You really can't go wrong either way. The dated interior of the E30 isn't to my liking, but the driving experience is fantastic.
You really can't go wrong either way. The dated interior of the E30 isn't to my liking, but the driving experience is fantastic.
12-12-2005, 07:21 PM
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Re: E30 M3 vs ITR - Which would you choose? (WayneGro)
You failed to mention the cost of maintaining them in operation - the BMW having the higher cost.
Each has different rewards and requirements. The BMW being RWD is chuckable - which is alot of fun. The ITR being FWD requires discipline to extract fun quantities of speed. In the abstract it's the same game. Subjectively the BMW has the edge in potential for entertainment.
You might as well pick the one that you think looks cooler.
Scott, who loves Honda motors...the rest of the ITR isn't too bad either...
Each has different rewards and requirements. The BMW being RWD is chuckable - which is alot of fun. The ITR being FWD requires discipline to extract fun quantities of speed. In the abstract it's the same game. Subjectively the BMW has the edge in potential for entertainment.
You might as well pick the one that you think looks cooler.
Scott, who loves Honda motors...the rest of the ITR isn't too bad either...
12-12-2005, 07:21 PM
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Re: E30 M3 vs ITR - Which would you choose? (WayneGro)
It really depends what you are looking for. For as similar as the cars may be performance-wise, they are totally different. The ITR is better for a daily driver and will probablly be subject to less mechanical problems. Although i personally believe that the M3 will be better on the road course, i would still buy the ITR so i could autox it and roadrace it and daily drive it, and not have to worry about things breaking.
So overall: for your ONLY car....ITR, for a weekend racer ///M3 hands down.
Lastly, i will comment on price. There is no way you will ever find an E30 M3 in good condition with under 100k miles for the same money as you could buy an ITR for.
good luck with whatever you choose
So overall: for your ONLY car....ITR, for a weekend racer ///M3 hands down.
Lastly, i will comment on price. There is no way you will ever find an E30 M3 in good condition with under 100k miles for the same money as you could buy an ITR for.
good luck with whatever you choose
12-12-2005, 07:42 PM
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Re: E30 M3 vs ITR - Which would you choose? (chris1866)
the S14 motor in the E30 M3 costs about $10k to rebuild. they are big money to maintain, but it is probably #1 or #2 on my list of must own cars during my lifetime. the F355 challenge cars for sale in the back of Sports Car for $30k might have just beat out the E30 M3 for the top spot.
12-12-2005, 07:43 PM
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Re: E30 M3 vs ITR - Which would you choose? (chris1866)
I met a E46 M3 owner yesterday and he said he enjoyed his Type R than his BMW. He said there was nothing really special about the M3. My jaw dropped.
12-12-2005, 07:51 PM
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Re: E30 M3 vs ITR - Which would you choose? (RR98ITR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You failed to mention the cost of maintaining them in operation....</TD></TR></TABLE>
Warren **** had a nice E30 M3 that he was using for a daily driver for a while. Parts were expensive compared to the ITR.
Warren **** had a nice E30 M3 that he was using for a daily driver for a while. Parts were expensive compared to the ITR.
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12-12-2005, 08:04 PM
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Re: E30 M3 vs ITR - Which would you choose?
Already chose the ITR.
IF I was doing it again, I'd consider the E30 M3 too... they are hot little cars. Autocross, they are very close, M3 might be a touch quicker. In my limited track experience, my ITR was faster stock than stock-ish E30's.
Nah, I'd choose the ITR. But those Bimmer motors do sound nice at 8000 RPM's.
-Chris
IF I was doing it again, I'd consider the E30 M3 too... they are hot little cars. Autocross, they are very close, M3 might be a touch quicker. In my limited track experience, my ITR was faster stock than stock-ish E30's.
Nah, I'd choose the ITR. But those Bimmer motors do sound nice at 8000 RPM's.
-Chris
12-12-2005, 08:49 PM
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Re: E30 M3 vs ITR - Which would you choose? (Nishant)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Autocross, they are very close, M3 might be a touch quicker. In my limited track experience, my ITR was faster stock than stock-ish E30's.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
you're first statement is the more accurate of the two.
ITR is a great car nonetheless.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
you're first statement is the more accurate of the two.
ITR is a great car nonetheless.
12-12-2005, 10:48 PM
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Re: E30 M3 vs ITR - Which would you choose? (WhoisDan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WhoisDan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I met a E46 M3 owner yesterday and he said he enjoyed his Type R than his BMW. He said there was nothing really special about the M3. My jaw dropped.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's because he's an E46 owner. There really isn't much about those cars that's special. It's an overweight luxo-barge with a motor that, however wonderful it is, waits to turn itself into a paperweight if it's money-shifted or gets filled with the wrong kind of oil.
This may be heretical on my part, but I think that the E36 M3 was the best M3. It dumbed down the raucous nature of the E30, but was still lauded by a major mag as "the best-handling car at any price," topping Ferraris and Lambos and 911s of its time. It's also a much better car for daily use, and makes its driver look a little more respectable than a yellow ITR or orange E30 when picking up a date or a co-worker. It was also the most versatile. You can have it in a 4-door; you can have it in a lightweight competition model.
E36 > E30 > E46. The new V8 model is going to be even worse than the E46.
That's because he's an E46 owner. There really isn't much about those cars that's special. It's an overweight luxo-barge with a motor that, however wonderful it is, waits to turn itself into a paperweight if it's money-shifted or gets filled with the wrong kind of oil.
This may be heretical on my part, but I think that the E36 M3 was the best M3. It dumbed down the raucous nature of the E30, but was still lauded by a major mag as "the best-handling car at any price," topping Ferraris and Lambos and 911s of its time. It's also a much better car for daily use, and makes its driver look a little more respectable than a yellow ITR or orange E30 when picking up a date or a co-worker. It was also the most versatile. You can have it in a 4-door; you can have it in a lightweight competition model.
E36 > E30 > E46. The new V8 model is going to be even worse than the E46.
12-13-2005, 03:02 AM
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Re: E30 M3 vs ITR - Which would you choose? (WayneGro)
I love my E46 more so than I do my ITR. I wouldn't really compare the two because they're aimed at two entirely different demographic. Those that believe the E46 is just trash should check out what you can do with them with some money. But I prefer the creature comfort over the blarring road noise and the fact that I can park my $50K car at the movie theatres and not have to worry about it being vandalized or stolen compared to my $20K ITR. 
Different strokes for different folks.
Different strokes for different folks.
12-13-2005, 04:52 AM
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Re: E30 M3 vs ITR - Which would you choose? (len)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by len »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh and for some odd reason, my Insurance on my M3 is $1,000 cheaper than on my ITR. 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah I know what you mean
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by len »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Those that believe the E46 is just trash should check out what you can do with them with some money. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Some money ?!?!?!? hahaha I hate buying parts for the M, they are so damn expensive.
Header, section 1, section 2 & muffler = over $5k
Koni & GC = $2k
19" tires = $300 front each and $380 rear each..
Brake rotors = $300 each
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WhoisDan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I met a E46 M3 owner yesterday and he said he enjoyed his Type R than his BMW. He said there was nothing really special about the M3. My jaw dropped.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Was that you at the FL meet I talked to? I still say, owning both an ITR and a E46 M3, that the ITR is a much more fun car to drive. Its light weight really makes a big difference on the track. Now, driving to work every day and going out with the ladies, the M3 is 10 time better for obvious reason.
e46 M3 = daily driver
itr = weekend warrior
</TD></TR></TABLE>Yeah I know what you mean
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by len »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Those that believe the E46 is just trash should check out what you can do with them with some money. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Some money ?!?!?!? hahaha I hate buying parts for the M, they are so damn expensive.
Header, section 1, section 2 & muffler = over $5k
Koni & GC = $2k
19" tires = $300 front each and $380 rear each..
Brake rotors = $300 each
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WhoisDan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I met a E46 M3 owner yesterday and he said he enjoyed his Type R than his BMW. He said there was nothing really special about the M3. My jaw dropped.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Was that you at the FL meet I talked to? I still say, owning both an ITR and a E46 M3, that the ITR is a much more fun car to drive. Its light weight really makes a big difference on the track. Now, driving to work every day and going out with the ladies, the M3 is 10 time better for obvious reason.
e46 M3 = daily driver
itr = weekend warrior
12-13-2005, 05:07 AM
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Craig when I read that I was wondering if he was reffering to you. It really depends though. On the highway I loved that M3 but for spirited driving I think I would choose the R.
12-13-2005, 05:08 AM
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Re: E30 M3 vs ITR - Which would you choose? (AssPenny)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AssPenny »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Header, section 1, section 2 & muffler = over $5k</TD></TR></TABLE>
By contrast, I am going to end up paying $400 for the header for a Honda project that'll probably Dynojet around 230.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Koni & GC = $2k</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wow. You can get a used, light mileage N1 competition suspension for that.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">19" tires = $300 front each and $380 rear each..
Brake rotors = $300 each</TD></TR></TABLE>
Considering how many tyres and brake rotors I go through in the course of a year, this is out of the question! LOL....
I think that if I were not doing the project with the DC2 ITR, I'd look at a Subaru Legacy GT as an all-around very decent buy for a daily driver. No fanciness, no radio controls in the steering wheel, no talking computers, and a price that wouldn't make your banker pass out stone cold at the desk.
Header, section 1, section 2 & muffler = over $5k</TD></TR></TABLE>
By contrast, I am going to end up paying $400 for the header for a Honda project that'll probably Dynojet around 230.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Koni & GC = $2k</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wow. You can get a used, light mileage N1 competition suspension for that.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">19" tires = $300 front each and $380 rear each..
Brake rotors = $300 each</TD></TR></TABLE>
Considering how many tyres and brake rotors I go through in the course of a year, this is out of the question! LOL....
I think that if I were not doing the project with the DC2 ITR, I'd look at a Subaru Legacy GT as an all-around very decent buy for a daily driver. No fanciness, no radio controls in the steering wheel, no talking computers, and a price that wouldn't make your banker pass out stone cold at the desk.
12-13-2005, 06:06 AM
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Re: E30 M3 vs ITR - Which would you choose? (AssPenny)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AssPenny »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Some money ?!?!?!? hahaha I hate buying parts for the M, they are so damn expensive.
Header, section 1, section 2 & muffler = over $5k
Koni & GC = $2k
19" tires = $300 front each and $380 rear each..
Brake rotors = $300 each</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you do a ratio of "cost of parts" to "cost of car", it's roughly a 1 percent difference in favor of the integra.
Regardless, I still enjoy driving my M3.
Header, section 1, section 2 & muffler = over $5k
Koni & GC = $2k
19" tires = $300 front each and $380 rear each..
Brake rotors = $300 each</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you do a ratio of "cost of parts" to "cost of car", it's roughly a 1 percent difference in favor of the integra.
Regardless, I still enjoy driving my M3.
12-13-2005, 06:51 AM
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Re: E30 M3 vs ITR - Which would you choose? (Nishant)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Nishant »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> In my limited track experience, my ITR was faster stock than stock-ish E30's.-</TD></TR></TABLE>
Stock for stock the E30 M3 is faster, no question.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the S14 motor in the E30 M3 costs about $10k to rebuild.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I know they are expensive, but that $10k figure seems pretty exaggerated.
Stock for stock the E30 M3 is faster, no question.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the S14 motor in the E30 M3 costs about $10k to rebuild.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I know they are expensive, but that $10k figure seems pretty exaggerated.
12-13-2005, 06:59 AM
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Re: E30 M3 vs ITR - Which would you choose? (Pocket Ross)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Pocket Ross »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">E36 > E30 > E46. The new V8 model is going to be even worse than the E46.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree with your there. The aim of the E46 and its replacement is completely different that what it was in the 90's. I was considering getting the E36 but the LTW edition was so hard to find. I found one and it was sold within a day. I gave up looking after that
I agree with your there. The aim of the E46 and its replacement is completely different that what it was in the 90's. I was considering getting the E36 but the LTW edition was so hard to find. I found one and it was sold within a day. I gave up looking after that
12-13-2005, 07:22 AM
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Re: E30 M3 vs ITR - Which would you choose? (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Stock for stock the E30 M3 is faster, no question.
I know they are expensive, but that $10k figure seems pretty exaggerated.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
look up internal motor parts on the thing, it's rediculous. and the parts aren't the worst part....from the people i've spoke with, there are really only 2 people in the country truly qualified to rebuild these things, one guy in chicago, and one in new jersey, the labor is what makes it expensive. i'm sure you could send it off to someone else and get it done cheaper though.
various timing chain tensioners are $600
Head Gasket $100
Intake Manifold Gasket $200
Valve Springs $450
Plug Wires $225
Stock for stock the E30 M3 is faster, no question.
I know they are expensive, but that $10k figure seems pretty exaggerated.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
look up internal motor parts on the thing, it's rediculous. and the parts aren't the worst part....from the people i've spoke with, there are really only 2 people in the country truly qualified to rebuild these things, one guy in chicago, and one in new jersey, the labor is what makes it expensive. i'm sure you could send it off to someone else and get it done cheaper though.
various timing chain tensioners are $600
Head Gasket $100
Intake Manifold Gasket $200
Valve Springs $450
Plug Wires $225
12-13-2005, 07:29 AM
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Re: E30 M3 vs ITR - Which would you choose? (WayneGro)
E30 S14 M3 >> ITR
If you think ITR is better than E30 due to financial reasons, then this whole argument is pretty silly. (which the threader starter isn't considering)
Compare the performance of the cars... E30 S14 M3 rocks. (Unless, you believe FWD is better than RWD for some obscene reason.)
E30 S14 M3 forever.
(check out http://www.s14.net , they have a lot of good info as well as well-maintained cars for sale.)
If you think ITR is better than E30 due to financial reasons, then this whole argument is pretty silly. (which the threader starter isn't considering)
Compare the performance of the cars... E30 S14 M3 rocks. (Unless, you believe FWD is better than RWD for some obscene reason.)
E30 S14 M3 forever.
(check out http://www.s14.net , they have a lot of good info as well as well-maintained cars for sale.)
12-13-2005, 12:40 PM
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Re: E30 M3 vs ITR - Which would you choose? (Cosworth)
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=491425
I figured I'd go ahead and do it, whatwith you not being a noob and all
I figured I'd go ahead and do it, whatwith you not being a noob and all
12-13-2005, 03:44 PM
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Re: E30 M3 vs ITR - Which would you choose? (WhoisDan)
my e46 m3....daily driver
my ITR..weekend track terror
if you have the money or want to spend the money then e30 m3
e30 m3 (euro s52 swap) > e30 m3 (s14 swap)
my ITR..weekend track terror
if you have the money or want to spend the money then e30 m3
e30 m3 (euro s52 swap) > e30 m3 (s14 swap)
12-13-2005, 06:08 PM
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Re: E30 M3 vs ITR - Which would you choose? (len)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by len »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I love my E46 more so than I do my ITR. I wouldn't really compare the two because they're aimed at two entirely different demographic. Those that believe the E46 is just trash should check out what you can do with them with some money. But I prefer the creature comfort over the blarring road noise and the fact that I can park my $50K car at the movie theatres and not have to worry about it being vandalized or stolen compared to my $20K ITR. Different strokes for different folks. </TD></TR></TABLE>
In terms of performance on the track, stock vs stock, the ITR is a better and more fun car to drive. The E46 M3 is heavy and simply doesn't handle that well for that very reason. It becomes a very potent car with just a few simple suspension upgrades, though.
Overall, I like my E46 M3 a lot. I think it's the best M3 yet, more power, more luxury, more refined, better in every way then its predecessors, both of which are great cars to begin with. Although I can understand some folks who have a certain amount of affecton towards older Bimmers, it's downright silly to suggest that the E30 M3 is a better car than the E46 M3.
As for the thread starter's original question, I'd suggest getting an E30 M3. The E30 platform as a whole was built like a tank, handles well, and doesn't take much to turn one into a track car. If you get the track-ready E30 M3, all the better.
Different strokes for different folks. </TD></TR></TABLE>In terms of performance on the track, stock vs stock, the ITR is a better and more fun car to drive. The E46 M3 is heavy and simply doesn't handle that well for that very reason. It becomes a very potent car with just a few simple suspension upgrades, though.
Overall, I like my E46 M3 a lot. I think it's the best M3 yet, more power, more luxury, more refined, better in every way then its predecessors, both of which are great cars to begin with. Although I can understand some folks who have a certain amount of affecton towards older Bimmers, it's downright silly to suggest that the E30 M3 is a better car than the E46 M3.
As for the thread starter's original question, I'd suggest getting an E30 M3. The E30 platform as a whole was built like a tank, handles well, and doesn't take much to turn one into a track car. If you get the track-ready E30 M3, all the better.