Black R

I know we've gone over this before.

But I can't think of a good reason to let the vapors from under the valve cover to go into my intake tract...

So I currently run a tube to a catch can from my valve cover.

But I'm wondering if I should put a one-way valve or pcv valve on here to prevent ambient air from going into the valve cover and only allow oil vapors to come out.

Any reason for/ against what I propose?

splitime

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know we've gone over this before.

But I can't think of a good reason to let the vapors from under the valve cover to go into my intake tract...

So I currently run a tube to a catch can from my valve cover.

But I'm wondering if I should put a one-way valve or pcv valve on here to prevent ambient air from going into the valve cover and only allow oil vapors to come out.

Any reason for/ against what I propose?</TD></TR></TABLE>

You'll find that it really won't pull air in. It'll usually have some out pressure just by virtue of the heated air needing an escape.

The ideal solution is more than one VC port and a vac source (slashcut exhaust/intake or vacuum pump), but 99% of us don't live in that world

MightyMouseTech

You should read up on how the PCV system actually works.

Your ideas don't make much sense. The breather tube allows air INTO the valve cover, not the other way. It is called a POSITIVE crankcase ventilation. Air is pulled into the valve cover (and heated by the coolant pipe it is attached to to prevent condensation in the valve cover) the air travels though the valve cover and though the bottom end and pulls the oil/exhaust vapours out of the block and through the PCV valve and gets burned. By blocking the valve cover breather line, you are preventing the PCV from venting those vapours inside the motor and this will cause your oil to get contaminated much quicker and you will see increased engine wear. By putting a filter on the valve cover, you are allowing ambient temperature air into the valve cover (because you are bypassing the coolant pre-heater) which will cause conensation in the valve cover and sludge buildup. This will shorten the life of your motor.

In other words, if you don't understand how it works, leave it alone.

.water

i heard its bad.....its not like hurting anything.but NOT better than stock.

splitime

Thats interesting.... pressure is built up in the head (minor blowby, heat etc... and the bottom builds it also. The PCV system is for relieving crankcase pressure, the upper vent is for relieving pressure from the head.

The concept of adding larger auxilary openings in the valve cover isn't to allow more air in.... you do realize that oil drainage routes from the head to the block can pass pressure right? Which means the ENTIRE system gets pressurized.

splitime

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MightyMouseTech &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You should read up on how the PCV system actually works.

Your ideas don't make much sense. The breather tube allows air INTO the valve cover, not the other way. It is called a POSITIVE crankcase ventilation. Air is pulled into the valve cover (and heated by the coolant pipe it is attached to to prevent condensation in the valve cover) the air travels though the valve cover and though the bottom end and pulls the oil/exhaust vapours out of the block and through the PCV valve and gets burned. By blocking the valve cover breather line, you are preventing the PCV from venting those vapours inside the motor and this will cause your oil to get contaminated much quicker and you will see increased engine wear. By putting a filter on the valve cover, you are allowing ambient temperature air into the valve cover (because you are bypassing the coolant pre-heater) which will cause conensation in the valve cover and sludge buildup. This will shorten the life of your motor.

In other words, if you don't understand how it works, leave it alone.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Quoted for later comments... just in case ;p .. and you really don't understand how our systems work do you. NA and turbo/SC applications... build pressure... in the ENTIRE motor.

Go here. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1199935

MightyMouseTech

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by splitime &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thats interesting.... pressure is built up in the head (minor blowby, heat etc... and the bottom builds it also. The PCV system is for relieving crankcase pressure, the upper vent is for relieving pressure from the head.

The concept of adding larger auxilary openings in the valve cover isn't to allow more air in.... you do realize that oil drainage routes from the head to the block can pass pressure right? Which means the ENTIRE system gets pressurized.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

[sigh]

[shakes head and walks away]

splitime

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MightyMouseTech &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">[sigh]

[shakes head and walks away]</TD></TR></TABLE>

So all of us with gunk on our TB plate and inside the intake arm are just imagining things eh. (a simple example, since you obviously don't wish to discuss)

btw, I only really care about the area where crankcase pressure is most evident.. WOT. Idle yes, it can draw stuff in and create a flow like you've talked about. But for real world driving, particularly WOT... the system pressurizes and needs every outlet it can get.


Modified by splitime at 11:44 AM 12/22/2005

vtec.dc2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know we've gone over this before.

But I can't think of a good reason to let the vapors from under the valve cover to go into my intake tract...

So I currently run a tube to a catch can from my valve cover.

But I'm wondering if I should put a one-way valve or pcv valve on here to prevent ambient air from going into the valve cover and only allow oil vapors to come out.

Any reason for/ against what I propose?</TD></TR></TABLE>

breather filter will trap oil and become a restriction, theres really no problem in running stock system. because hondas manage 200-300k using stock everything.

i've been running mine open for about 30k miles because of boost setup

RedKroovy

What do you do if you never had the line in the first place. The guy I got the car from had a filter their. There is also no line there. If anyone has an idea on what to use as a replacement let me know.

mikestypeRR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MightyMouseTech &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You should read up on how the PCV system actually works.

Your ideas don't make much sense. The breather tube allows air INTO the valve cover, not the other way. It is called a POSITIVE crankcase ventilation. Air is pulled into the valve cover (and heated by the coolant pipe it is attached to to prevent condensation in the valve cover) the air travels though the valve cover and though the bottom end and pulls the oil/exhaust vapours out of the block and through the PCV valve and gets burned. By blocking the valve cover breather line, you are preventing the PCV from venting those vapours inside the motor and this will cause your oil to get contaminated much quicker and you will see increased engine wear. By putting a filter on the valve cover, you are allowing ambient temperature air into the valve cover (because you are bypassing the coolant pre-heater) which will cause conensation in the valve cover and sludge buildup. This will shorten the life of your motor.

In other words, if you don't understand how it works, leave it alone.</TD></TR></TABLE>


x 1432652653453763754

TurboTeG4

I never ran anything on that valve cover, mines has been open forever, so has my previous d16z6 turbo. I dont get oil residue or vapor residue anywhere either from leaving it open?

Chris F

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Any reason for/ against what I propose?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Search

If you perform regular oil changes, and you get your car hot most of the times you drive it, I wouldn't worry about condensation. Mine is all vented to atmosphere right now.

In an ideal emissions-happy world, your motor would seal pretty well (valve guides, piston rings, etc. At idle/high vacuum, the PCV would be sucking quite a bit of air (vacuum). The valve cover breather would be letting air into the motor (clean filtered air) and that would help reduce condensation in the motor by giving the water vapor from the exhaust that bypassed the piston rings a place to go.

If you do a lot of short drives, and the motor never really heats up, this system should help a lot.

In a WOT world, there's no vacuum, and oily exhaust crap gets spewed out any open hole in the motor. This could include the valve cover, PCV, dipstick t00b, etc.

So, pick a world to live in.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtec.dc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">breather filter will trap oil and become a restriction, theres really no problem in running stock system. because hondas manage 200-300k using stock everything.

i've been running mine open for about 30k miles because of boost setup</TD></TR></TABLE>

Same.. except less miles.

Only thing I'd really suggest is at least a catchcan on the PCV for a track caR. I think half of the cars billowing smoke are losing it out the PCV. When my piston rings were totally fried, I'd overflow my Moroso catch can on each track run, but not much oil was coming out the exhaust.

Black R

I guess I should've specified in the original post whether this is allmotor or turbo.....

Here's how my allmotor car is set up currently:









Now my turbo car is set with the catch can in between the valve cover and the IM - and it does collect the oily water pictured. I don't like the idea of this crap blowing into my IM and back into my combustion chambers... fouling the intake charge and reducing the octane of my burn...

So can't I just do my turbo car in the same configuration?

mugenracer

Black R...would the same happen on a NA motor? I fitted an intake pipe a while back that didnt have a hole for the breather pipe, so i ran the breather pipe to a coke bottle which i zip tied under the IM. I literally forgot about it as it wasnt visable from above and only spotted it again when i was changing the oil filter. The bottle was completely empty....not even a trace of oil/water/residue in it. I estimate i had done close to 4k miles with the valve cover breather running to the bottle and the car was driven damn hard numerous occasions in the 4k miles.

Black R

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mugenracer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Black R...would the same happen on a NA motor? I fitted an intake pipe a while back that didnt have a hole for the breather pipe, so i ran the breather pipe to a coke bottle which i zip tied under the IM. I literally forgot about it as it wasnt visable from above and only spotted it again when i was changing the oil filter. The bottle was completely empty....not even a trace of oil/water/residue in it. I estimate i had done close to 4k miles with the valve cover breather running to the bottle and the car was driven damn hard numerous occasions in the 4k miles. </TD></TR></TABLE>


The above configuration is my allmotor car.....

My turbo one is different.....

Ryuji

The air doesn't go out the valve cover but go in...

Put a little filter and voilà !

vtec.dc2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ryuji &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The air doesn't go out the valve cover but go in...

Put a little filter and voilà !
</TD></TR></TABLE>

very simple, place your hand in front of breather valve while the car is running.. and if you ever take a visit to a dyno.. watch closely for steam at higher rpm and wot.

SiBlueEG6

i got a pvc one lol

SlapSmak

aim at the head and pull the trigger, or chop the head off and burn it. It works in all the movies.

tipe R

the upper vent on the valve cover is to allow fresh, filtered air into the engine, it isn't an outlet. the pcv valve is opened by crankcase pressure and intake vacuum draws the vapours out to be burned in the cumbustion chamber
if you didnt have a fresh air inlet, the system couldn't vent vapours as efficiently. kind of like pouring gas from a geri can (excuse my spelling) without opening the vent. when the pcv valve is closed however, some vapours will be vented out of the valve cover into the intake arm which cause oil in the arm and on the throttle plate.

bigsyke

The system is a 1 way system. Air goes into the valve cover and out the PCV valve into the IM. This only works well durring idle, low load cruise and decel.

Durring moderate accelleration the pressure has to force its way out. When the flow reverses to vent from the VC, the PCV valve shuts, and thus your venting to atmosphere essentially with much more restriction due to only having a 1/2 vent tube in the VC to relief all pressure.

The valve can only displace a few CC's, which isnt much. The IM will pull the valve open, where the pressure from the crankcase will push pass the valve where it is assisted. Its only emissions related, and you will have cleaner oil, and a cleaner engine if properly vented.

Use a good oil like amsoil or redline, and get your car up to temp every drive and VTA is clearly a much better choice.

Vacuum at idle is not needed, 0 pressure in the crankcase is. Vacuum at high loads will help, but the PCV restrictor valve kills that so you have a controled metered vacuum leak, and you dont suck oil into the intake. It works on stock cars, but it isnt even close to efficient.

ReneR.

you guys do realize its a four year old thread.....

jamaicantourist

good info

mugenracer

So what???? Its still relevant and there are probably more people with B18C motors now than ever before. The info hasn't become redundant or been superceded by something else!