Another Sticky Street Tire
05-04-2009, 01:15 PM
#1
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Another Sticky Street Tire
For those who think we don't already have enough options for our cars:
Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec (195/55-15)
Bridgestone Potenza RE-11 (205/50-15, 205/45-16)
Kumho Ecsta XS (205/50-15, 215/45-16)
Toyo R1R (195/55-15, 205/50-15, 205/45-16)
Falken Azenis RT-615 (205/50-15, 215/45-16)
here comes another alternative:
Yokohama Advan Neova AD08 (205/50-15).
The AD08 is expected to be available later this week for $121/tire at the Tire Rack. Yokohama's website claims that it's even faster and stickier than the AD07, with an improvement of over half a second per lap. Of course, most of us aren't familiar with the AD07 because it hasn't been available (at least not in North America) in ITR-friendly sizes.
It will be interesting to see how the AD08 compares with the others.
More choices are always a good thing!
Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec (195/55-15)
Bridgestone Potenza RE-11 (205/50-15, 205/45-16)
Kumho Ecsta XS (205/50-15, 215/45-16)
Toyo R1R (195/55-15, 205/50-15, 205/45-16)
Falken Azenis RT-615 (205/50-15, 215/45-16)
here comes another alternative:
Yokohama Advan Neova AD08 (205/50-15).
The AD08 is expected to be available later this week for $121/tire at the Tire Rack. Yokohama's website claims that it's even faster and stickier than the AD07, with an improvement of over half a second per lap. Of course, most of us aren't familiar with the AD07 because it hasn't been available (at least not in North America) in ITR-friendly sizes.
It will be interesting to see how the AD08 compares with the others.
More choices are always a good thing!
05-04-2009, 01:59 PM
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Re: Another Sticky Street Tire
Ken, any idas on how those tires rank out in terms of grip?
By my experience, I would list them as:
1. Bridgestone Potenza RE-11
2. Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec
3. Yokohama Advan Neova AD08 (assuming its like previous Neovas)
4. Kumho Ecsta XS
5. Falken Azenis RT-615
6. Toyo R1R
By my experience, I would list them as:
1. Bridgestone Potenza RE-11
2. Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec
3. Yokohama Advan Neova AD08 (assuming its like previous Neovas)
4. Kumho Ecsta XS
5. Falken Azenis RT-615
6. Toyo R1R
05-04-2009, 03:30 PM
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Re: Another Sticky Street Tire
From my own experience as well as reports I've read from others (mostly in the RR/AX forum), I would put them more like this:
1. (tie) Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec
1. (tie) Bridgestone Potenza RE-11
3. Kumho Ecsta XS
4. Toyo R1R
5. Falken Azenis RT-615
It's hard to evaluate a tire like the RE-11 when it first comes on the market, before many folks have had a chance to try it, but it's a pretty safe bet that it's at least as good as its predecessor, the RE-01R, and maybe better. That puts it right up around the top with the Star Spec, with the XS only a hair lower.
Most folks have been saying that the R1R is better than the Azenis, but it's also more expensive (as is the RE-11, on which that $100 rebate expired this past weekend). Bottom line, I think the first three tires above are significantly better than the R1R or Azenis, and the Star Spec and XS are also reasonably attractive in price.
I'm not sure where to put the AD08, given Yokohama's claims for it. I know, it's just marketing, but until someone's actually using it, I don't want to make an assumption (other than it ought to be at least as good as the AD07, and possibly better).
The impression I've gotten is that all of these competitors to the Azenis have improved on its biggest faults, with treadlife that's a little bit longer (I'm guessing 15K would be typical, with 20K an outside possibility, vs 10-12K for the Azenis) and also slightly better in terms of traction in rain and heat management on the track. And all of these competitors have come out in just the past year or two. I can only assume that Falken is hard at work on a replacement for the RT-615, one that can compete with these other new entrants in the market. In the meantime, there are lots of choices!
Here's what the AD08 looks like:
1. (tie) Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec
1. (tie) Bridgestone Potenza RE-11
3. Kumho Ecsta XS
4. Toyo R1R
5. Falken Azenis RT-615
It's hard to evaluate a tire like the RE-11 when it first comes on the market, before many folks have had a chance to try it, but it's a pretty safe bet that it's at least as good as its predecessor, the RE-01R, and maybe better. That puts it right up around the top with the Star Spec, with the XS only a hair lower.
Most folks have been saying that the R1R is better than the Azenis, but it's also more expensive (as is the RE-11, on which that $100 rebate expired this past weekend). Bottom line, I think the first three tires above are significantly better than the R1R or Azenis, and the Star Spec and XS are also reasonably attractive in price.
I'm not sure where to put the AD08, given Yokohama's claims for it. I know, it's just marketing, but until someone's actually using it, I don't want to make an assumption (other than it ought to be at least as good as the AD07, and possibly better).
The impression I've gotten is that all of these competitors to the Azenis have improved on its biggest faults, with treadlife that's a little bit longer (I'm guessing 15K would be typical, with 20K an outside possibility, vs 10-12K for the Azenis) and also slightly better in terms of traction in rain and heat management on the track. And all of these competitors have come out in just the past year or two. I can only assume that Falken is hard at work on a replacement for the RT-615, one that can compete with these other new entrants in the market. In the meantime, there are lots of choices!
Here's what the AD08 looks like:
05-04-2009, 03:44 PM
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Re: Another Sticky Street Tire
Ken, any idas on how those tires rank out in terms of grip?
By my experience, I would list them as:
1. Bridgestone Potenza RE-11
2. Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec
3. Yokohama Advan Neova AD08 (assuming its like previous Neovas)
4. Kumho Ecsta XS
5. Falken Azenis RT-615
6. Toyo R1R
By my experience, I would list them as:
1. Bridgestone Potenza RE-11
2. Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec
3. Yokohama Advan Neova AD08 (assuming its like previous Neovas)
4. Kumho Ecsta XS
5. Falken Azenis RT-615
6. Toyo R1R
Wondering what to get after the 615's...
05-04-2009, 04:45 PM
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Re: Another Sticky Street Tire
Just got the new grassroots, they do a comparison between 615, z1 star spec, R1R, RE-11, RE-01R, and Escta XS.
Here's how they did (mean time):
1. Ecsta XS........... 34.170 sec.
2. RE-11............... 34.266 sec.
3. RE-01R...............34.478 sec.
4. R1R................... 34.522 sec.
5. Z1 Star Spec...... 35.209 sec.
6. 615................... 35.302 sec.
Here's how they did (mean time):
1. Ecsta XS........... 34.170 sec.
2. RE-11............... 34.266 sec.
3. RE-01R...............34.478 sec.
4. R1R................... 34.522 sec.
5. Z1 Star Spec...... 35.209 sec.
6. 615................... 35.302 sec.
05-04-2009, 05:45 PM
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Re: Another Sticky Street Tire
1 second off of a 35 second course is a HUGE margin.
I've always been biased toward Kumho's
No love for Hankook RS2 (Z212)?
I've always been biased toward Kumho's
No love for Hankook RS2 (Z212)?
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05-04-2009, 09:16 PM
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Re: Another Sticky Street Tire
Just got the new grassroots, they do a comparison between 615, z1 star spec, R1R, RE-11, RE-01R, and Escta XS.
Here's how they did (mean time):
1. Ecsta XS........... 34.170 sec.
2. RE-11............... 34.266 sec.
3. RE-01R...............34.478 sec.
4. R1R................... 34.522 sec.
5. Z1 Star Spec...... 35.209 sec.
6. 615................... 35.302 sec.
Here's how they did (mean time):
1. Ecsta XS........... 34.170 sec.
2. RE-11............... 34.266 sec.
3. RE-01R...............34.478 sec.
4. R1R................... 34.522 sec.
5. Z1 Star Spec...... 35.209 sec.
6. 615................... 35.302 sec.
Yes... But they're not the same sizes. some were 195 and some were 205.
05-04-2009, 11:30 PM
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Re: Another Sticky Street Tire
my 195 *specs are wider than my old 205 615s on the same 15x6 stock rim. bonus that they maintain stock diameter too (the azenis were shorter).
in any case, a ~2000lbs ST civic with an open diff and ~120whp isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison with an ITR. not to mention the ST guys are mostly running the R1R's up front anyway because they come in 225 while none of the others do.
as with all comparisons, take them with a grain of salt. there was also a note in the article to indicate that the 615s were run first thing in the morning, and the median time when re-tested in the afternoon dropped by 0.4.
food for thought: it's a lot harder to pick a "wrong" tire these days (vs. a few years ago). and anybody in an ITR that's serious (for both autox and road racing) won't be running street tires anyway
in any case, a ~2000lbs ST civic with an open diff and ~120whp isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison with an ITR. not to mention the ST guys are mostly running the R1R's up front anyway because they come in 225 while none of the others do.
as with all comparisons, take them with a grain of salt. there was also a note in the article to indicate that the 615s were run first thing in the morning, and the median time when re-tested in the afternoon dropped by 0.4.
food for thought: it's a lot harder to pick a "wrong" tire these days (vs. a few years ago). and anybody in an ITR that's serious (for both autox and road racing) won't be running street tires anyway
05-05-2009, 06:10 AM
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05-05-2009, 06:11 AM
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Re: Another Sticky Street Tire
I thought this series of vids was interesting. Not a true end all be all test but interesting none the less using same size tires and cars that are similairly weighted to ours. Featuring, R1R, Star Spec, Neova Ad07, RE-11.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7Nin...e=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AcD6...e=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcuhl...e=channel_page
05-05-2009, 07:05 AM
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Re: Another Sticky Street Tire
<---- Just picked up a set of R888's in 225/16/45. Should be a GREAT improvement over the 615's... though they aren't "street" tires, but are DOT legal.
05-05-2009, 07:15 AM
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Re: Another Sticky Street Tire
i said serious 
as much as i'd like to say the ITR has a chance in STX, there's a reason no top drivers have taken a chance. the 02-04 WRX, RX-8 and MK4 R32 are just too much to handle. heck, i'd rather take an ST civic (sans LSD) and run it in STX over an ITR!!
as much as i'd like to say the ITR has a chance in STX, there's a reason no top drivers have taken a chance. the 02-04 WRX, RX-8 and MK4 R32 are just too much to handle. heck, i'd rather take an ST civic (sans LSD) and run it in STX over an ITR!!
05-05-2009, 07:18 AM
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05-05-2009, 07:21 AM
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Re: Another Sticky Street Tire
I agree. If I didn't have so much $$ in mods already, I would already be is DS. This year's rule changes have definately put our caR's at a huge disadvantage in AutoX.
05-05-2009, 07:22 AM
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05-05-2009, 07:22 AM
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Re: Another Sticky Street Tire
although with that amount of grip that site will have by then, i honestly think us DStockers are gonna be underdogs against the slowbalts too 
05-05-2009, 07:29 AM
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Re: Another Sticky Street Tire
I'll be there. Whether I'll be driving mine or codriving in DS I am not sure yet. We'll see.
05-05-2009, 07:41 AM
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Re: Another Sticky Street Tire
05-05-2009, 08:21 AM
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Re: Another Sticky Street Tire
Treadwear ratings can be extremely misleading. For example, the Falken Azenis RT-615 carries a treadwear rating of 200, but typically lasts 10-12K miles on the street, which means they really ought to be rated somewhere around 100, not 200. I've always thought that Falken did this intentionally because some competition series require a minimum treadwear rating of 200, but I have no evidence of that.
To answer your question, though, here are their treadwear ratings:
Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec - 200
Bridgestone Potenza RE-11 - 180
Kumho Ecsta XS - 180
Toyo R1R - 140
Falken Azenis RT-615 - 200
Yokohama Advan Neova AD08 - 180
Nope. For one thing, everyone knows it doesn't grip as well as even the Azenis, which is falling behind these others. For another thing, the Z212 is being discontinued, and is being replaced by the Hankook Ventus R-S3 Z222, which is now available, although the only size that will work on the ITR is 225/45-15, and for that you will need wheels at least 7" wide and you may need to roll your fenders too.
Hankook obviously knew it was falling behind the competition, and needed to replace the Z212 with a tire that is more competitive. Hence the Z222.
The R888 is an R compound track tire, which really isn't comparable. And I wouldn't use track tires for everyday use on the street, for all kinds of reasons, not least of which is that they're really expensive and they wear even faster than these other sticky tires.
You'll like 'em.
To answer your question, though, here are their treadwear ratings:
Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec - 200
Bridgestone Potenza RE-11 - 180
Kumho Ecsta XS - 180
Toyo R1R - 140
Falken Azenis RT-615 - 200
Yokohama Advan Neova AD08 - 180
Nope. For one thing, everyone knows it doesn't grip as well as even the Azenis, which is falling behind these others. For another thing, the Z212 is being discontinued, and is being replaced by the Hankook Ventus R-S3 Z222, which is now available, although the only size that will work on the ITR is 225/45-15, and for that you will need wheels at least 7" wide and you may need to roll your fenders too.
Hankook obviously knew it was falling behind the competition, and needed to replace the Z212 with a tire that is more competitive. Hence the Z222.
You'll like 'em.
11-05-2009, 02:13 AM
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Re: Another Sticky Street Tire
I love my RE01R's. They are really good street and track tires. For purely track driving I'd go with RE-11s or Advan A048's tho...
11-05-2009, 06:12 AM
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Re: Another Sticky Street Tire
The new Hankook rs3s are out. Another sticky street tire.
Check out the flames. They will fit a 15x8 rim too.
Check out the flames.
They will fit a 15x8 rim too.