97itr242

What I should of mention is I'm the writer's DAD,

Dizzy Cap Non ITR also fix GSR up to 1994 and including Many OBD2 (1996-up)

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...02783&pt=02783

Dizzy Cap all ITR and 1995 up GSR

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...2783&ppt=C0413

I admit From Oreilly website I should of perform a deeper search than ebay and with our other two DelSol VTEC, 1994 and 1997 including friends vehicles a 1996 SE and a B17 GSR. Even with OBD2 Dizzy, Cap and Rotor is not the same. The same theory 1994 and 95 GSR will not fit each other and all up to 1995 is OBD1.

The 1997 DelSol which is OBD2, Freind w/1996 SE w/OBD2 and a GSR B1.7 OBD1 would not fix the 97-up ITR or GSR Dizzy.

The reason we know the VTEC is working at 5600 RPM is felt during acceleration plus we removed Solendid to clean, was told if there was blockage it would work, Once 12V is jump the Solenoid moves place two 16G wires from the Solenoid to a 12v light on the dash.

The odds of the mechanical devices in the Dizzy (Since the elec have been replace) limiting the RPM is very small. But I will be trying a borrow a Good Known (GK) 1997-up OBD2 GSR Dizzy and see if that will let pass the 7K RPM limit. I will also research may be the 1997 DelSol P30 VTEC ECU might plug into the 97 ITR? We have also try replace the new MSD Blaster 3 coil with a GK Accel super coil but still no go 7K RPM.

I am not sure why when you rev the engine it will go above the 7K+ RPM while sitting or in neutral out of gear. I would try swapping the dash but the ITR Plug is different from any Integra or GSR that I have seen. I need a oscilloscope to look at the firing and timing but I don't have one and just hooking this to a computer is not cheap.

The Black smoke from the rear and Black on the bumper is running to rich, burning oil would be Blue smoke plus the plugs would start fouling with contaminates Black on the electron. And white smoke is burning water probably a blown head gasket.

racebum

if you suspect the ecu, which would be odd. i have a jdm itr ecu you can have for $120 shipped. {better deal than any of them on ebay right now}

wonder if a malfunctioning knock sensor could do this. if it wigs and pulls enough timing the engine would drive weak and not climb in rpm for **** since the spark would be so late in the cycle

Hybrid96EK

Kragen doesn't know thier *** from a hole in the ground.. So trying to see what's interchangeable off that site isn't smart. I know this for a fact, I've been in this game for many years. B series vtec will interchange with any other b series vtec head. The plugs are different based on obd-0, obd-1, obd-2.

The external coil is a horrible idea and should be removed. I'm not saying its your problem, but it's not doing you any good either. Adding pieces to the puzzle which don't help only complicates troubleshooting.

It's not something mechanical in the dist that your worried about. It's the electrical items that can cause the mentioned problems. If you have been replacing sensors in the dist, I would call that dist garbage. The sensors are not designed to be replaced and I have yet to EVER have good luck with this practice. Even if the pickups are a hair out of alignment it will cause all kinda of strange things to happen. It's best to find a good used OEM dist.

The del sol ecu (97) should plug in fine. Pushing the car on the stock p30 isn't the wisest thing however. Del sol is mapped for a 1.6l, not the c5 in the r.. And yes, the maps are quite different.

Burning oil will not always show up as fouled plugs. That would depend on how much oil you were burning. Regardless I don't see what oil consumption has to do with a car that can't surpass a specific rpm.

97itr242

I had to think on how to write this then re wrote it many times so there it goes. OK I guess you have not read the entire post like about “ some black dust” in the beginning which was a comment on it’s own For some reason my son does not listen I guess when you’re young you think you know everything.

OK if you don’t believe “Oreilly website” here’s MSD website:

http://www.msdignition.com/products/...ompact_import/

I guess you didn’t read that we have TWO DelSol’s ONE 1994 OBD1 and ONE 1997 OBD2 both are B16A1 and both DIZZY will interchange with each other BUT NOT INTERCHANGE WITH THE ITR which the entire Dizzy, Cap and Rotor is larger. I guess I will have to figure how to add PICS just to explain by visual instead writing what I had already explain. Both DelSol have been converted using the MSD #82923 Kit relocating the coil (A MSD Blaster 3) on the inter fender. Both run great going pass 8,500 RPM. Every Acrua/Honda vehicle we have blows the internal coil, In the beginning I try replacing the internal coil but after the first two I just removed and replace with the external which works great even in the 97 ITR (MSD #82933 kit) which start great from Idle to 7K. So far from what I’ve read most people go to the external coil for the rest that thinks the coil can’t reach 9K RPM just imagine that the ignition of a 4 cyl is only half of a 8 cyl which a 8 cyl can reach over 7K which would be 14K RPM of a 4 cyl. Most USA vehicle have had the external coil for the past 100yrs with great success even most race cars uses external coils. Even GM in 1975 went to a internal Coil (HEI) had multiple issues and later had to be redesign to a external coil replacement once TBI was introduce in the mid 80’s with great success. It took GM a decade to make the changes when all racers and FORD already knew internal had problems but to think at one system is better than another is one minded. I’ve been a Engineer for the Past 30yrs and a car collector for the 45yrs not including being a USAF veteran and I still find things that amaze me.

I have design and built computer chips including the first 1996 FORD first prototype Air Bag Chips and the Motorola camera cell phone in S.Korea in 1998 At this time we have over 20 vehicles from a1964 ½ convertible mustang T5 to a 2005 Prius.

It's not that I'm new to working on vehicles or to this industry and hope I did not open a can of worms.

TEST 1 add Pics

racebum

msd kit has been troublesome with the honda b series. that's the biggest reason they aren't used often. the stock ignition has also proven itself right past 400whp so there's little reason to look at upgrades. the oem distributor is the top of the food chain for most of us.

as for the correct distributor, it's a td84u. if i remember right there is an 86u and 87u which are basically the same thing

aftermarket distributors are also questionable. failure rate is high and build quality is kind of shitty. moroso just released one which is the first quality name to make a direct fit distributor in some time. no idea how good it is

there are a lot of weird quirks with the 90s hondas that don't apply to american muscle. with them, an msd distributor is wonderful, with a honda, it's not

Hybrid96EK

Congratulations, I like older mustangs too and have a 65 of my own. These cars (integras) should not be compared with the older technology found in those mustangs. These are two completely different types of vehicles.

I did my best to read most of your post, but to be honest it's VERY hard for me to follow your point. Not really formatted well I guess.

Listen to me. Understand what I am typing here. In reference to the ENTIRE distributor, not just the internals, ALL b series vtec units will bolt to ANY b series head. I don't care if joe blow tells u the cap is larger or the rotor is different. The HOUSING shares the same bolt pattern. I'm stating this so you would hopefully understand that you can remove the dist off the 96 Gsr you mentioned (the whole dist, not the cap) and bolt it onto the r. The electrical plugs should be the same also. Simple and quick way to rule the dist out as the problem.

What does your development with ford chips have to do with anything I said here? I'm lost on that.

The stock Honda ignition system is very reliable and proven to function flawlessly with both high horsepower and high rpm applications. If your "blowing" coils then something is wrong. External coils are worthless. Its just something else taking up space in the engine bay and complicating troubleshooting. You like them? Awesome. You can't argue the results 99% of the Honda community has with stock ignition however.

Don't assume everyone here is a trying to be a know it all, or that we are all "kids". I am not another young punk who thinks he knows everything.

Now go swap the distributor and post the results. Enough pissing.

lzylst

iTrader: (1)

I firmly believe its ignition related. Engine stress while stationary is much different than a engine under load. It's common knowledge in the Honda community that a bouncing tachometer indicates a ICM (igniter) that is flipping out. If you decide to change the ICM be sure to have clean hands at a minimum - gloves preferably.

kchungb17a

Agree with all the ignition related posts regarding external coils. I've seen 400+HP Integras run all day long with OEM Honda ignition systems. Aftermarket ignition parts and Hondas do not work well together. I might put an aftermarket accessory belt on my Honda but would never consider using even an aftermarket dist cap, much less internals. Definitely should swap out a known good distributor and go from there.

Also agree and strongly recommend that you go back to NGK plugs. For some reason, Bosch plugs often cause stuttering and hesitation problems for Hondas. Few people believe me when I say this but this has fixed many driveability problems I've come across.

Hybrid96EK

The ONLY plug one should be running in a Honda is NGK. Thats my opinion, and a very strong one at that. This comes from years in this field.

97itr242

I need to apologize to everyone on this Post and anyone one who read this post. After discussing with my son whom started this post, He had reminded me that when we received the 97 ITR we had so much problem with trying to start and when we try to remove the MSD cap and rotor from the DelSol and nothing fix and I decided to order a MSD cap for the 97 ITR. We did not removed the entire Dizzy from the 1997 DelSol OBD2 to place into the 97 ITR. That's what happen once you get old your memory goes but actually your vision goes first. I will try to removed the 1997 DelSol OBD2 Dizzy and try to drive for awhile and see what happens. I will try to take pics and post the difference now that I know how to add pics.

Again please except my deep heart apologize to all that has try to help.

racebum

i don't for the life of me understand this

but i whole heartedly agree with you

copper or irridium NGK. i don't even like the platinums

the ONLY other plug i have seen work well are the bling expensive HKS m35i plugs. BUT, guess who makes them for hks? NGK

97itr242

Finally finish swapping complete Dizzy from the 97 DelSol to the 97 ITR I try to take pics to show the 94 DelSol, 97 DelSol and the 97 ITR and Engines. The Dizzy cap and rotor of the DelSol's are the same size but the 97 ITR is larger as shown on the left (Cap only) You can see on the last pic the 97 ITR Dizzy is still on the engine which is larger than the 97 DelSol on the Left. Plus wires and Spark Plugs (To NGK Copper) are also replace we run the ITR for a couple of days and see what happens. Now remember the 97 DelSol had no problem with passing the 7k RPM.

racebum

the big cap is an oem td84u. the aftermarket 84s and most others use the smaller cap. only the 96+ gsr and jdm+usdm itr use the fat cap distributor from the factory. they doesn't mean you have to have a fat cap, just means it's oem. the distributor king 84s use the small cap for example

Hybrid96EK

All three of those engines look like rats nests and could use a good cleaning. The first Del Sol is pretty low on brake fluid and looks like it has either a bad dist cap, or an issue with the top tank on the radiator..

Now, did swapping the dist's help with your 7k issue?

97itr242

After initial driving making sure the engine is at normal temp the Dizzy swap, New NGK Copper plugs and 9mm wires there is no effect. The engine will get to 7K very strong but once reach 7K the tach will start jumping from 7K to 9K.

Now that the understanding the 97 ITR cap is larger as EOM from the factory you CAN NOT place a small cap on to the factory 97 ITR Dizzy so yes you do have to use the large cap UNLESS you change the smaller Dizzy which I was trying to emphasis.

These are not show cars and since the kids don't care how it looks I'm not going to detail the cars. The 97 DelSol brakes need to replace so placing more brake fluid would just cause a over flow once I push the calipers in. The piece on the 97 DelSol radiator was due to a hair line crack right in the middle of the radiator running length wise. I took a piece of 2mm thick PVC cut the same width and length then used 5min epoxy and a 1500W heat gun and wallah... Been OK for over a year.

Next step is to possible swap the 97 DelSol and 97 ITR ECU but I need to do research before to make sure I don't cause more problems.

Hybrid96EK

There is a difference between a show car and actually giving a damn in your "investment".. but hey, each to his own. I don't show my cars, have no interest in that... but you could eat off my engine if you wanted to, or any other part of the car for that matter. I don't like working on grease pits. Leaving old oil leaks around to accumulate dirt/grime looks like hell and masks other potential REAL problem leaks.

So we have now concluded that the dist is not cause of the problem... You mention the tach needle jumping around, is the engine continuing to rev durring this or does it just stop as if you have hit the rev limiter?

97itr242

Well I can see where you are correct you need to talk to me kids why they don't give a S%%t about their vehicles. I'm only the mechanic and right now I have to find out what makes this thing tic's. For some reason there seems to be some bad attitude here but I don't detail cars and my kids don't care I've try to teach them everything but "You can get a horse to water but you can't get them to drink." My investment is in my kids and I try being my father but now I understand what my father has been trying to tell me but its over ten years to late. Since you have so much "investment" in your vehicles tell me how much do you think your investment worth? Do you how much a 97 USDM ITR or a 1968 Shelby GT500KR Convert is worth? Both vehicles just so happen to have just 318 made The KR is my car with over 18 other vehicles like I said I don't detail my kids cars and I hope you will detail you son's car in the near future. I really don't need your advice if it's criticism.

hatch22ajdm

sounds like you have a exhaust restriction remove the O2 sensors and drive it to see

Hybrid96EK

Your response did nothing but build upon the foundation you seem eager to lay... That you collect old cars. Really, Im happy for you. You obviously have some money to own the vehicles you have pointed out. Thats great. It still has nothing to do with the car in question. Your 68 Shelby has had MANY MANY years to appreciate in value. I can't, and wont, try to compare its value to that of a Type R. I can tell you my Type R is worth a lot more then I paid for it and it will continue to stay that way as I meticulously maintain the vehicle. Its my opinion that owning a limited production, special purpose, vehicle should only be for those people who truely appreciate the vehicle for what it is. I don't like seeing these vehicles hacked up and ran into the gound because "Its a Type R YO!". Im sure you wouldn't want to see someone with a 65 GT 350R just rotting in a field either.

BTW: Here is what I show regarding the production stats of your 68 GT 500KR:

Ford dealers sold 1,570 GT500KR models in 1968, 1053 fastbacks and 517 convertibles.
Read more at http://www.supercars.net/cars/5039.h...GxLmeTvKswk.99

Hybrid96EK

Is this for real?

97itr242

Please perform a better search. This number has been past around from the 300 to 530. Total 1968 Shelby GT500KR Convertible not including the Hertz is 318.

Wikipedia 68 KR Convert 318 Fastback 933.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelby_American#History

Shelby Only Website 68 KR Convert 318 Fastback 933.

http://www.thecarsource.com/shelby/p..._figures.shtml

It's like shooting ducks.

One other item I did not know you had a ITR so I was talking about my sons 97 ITR but for some reason you keep thinking I'm talking about you. I think you have problems.

Are you for Real?

Plus We disconnect the entire Cat still 7K RPM Max.

racebum

do not swap ecus. the del sol ecu does not have the correct map for an itr

this really needs to go back to basics

compression test the engine

vacuum test the engine

check wiring, also check voltage. a weak alternator or weak battery in theory could cause this. have seen it once in my life.

also, what ecu is the itr being ran off of? should be p73-A02, 3, or 4 if it's usdm or p73-003, 013, or 023 if jdm

a lot of other honda ecus have fuel cut and 7000. look at the sticker on the ecu, report back which one you have

engine should have at least 210lbs of compression and 21-22" or more of vacuum

97itr242

THX for your input I remember when we pull the ECU out it was a P73 but I did not know there were different ones. I will try to removed and take pics once we have it apart I do know that the Speedometer is in KPH and not MPH and from what my son said a ITR because it's Orange dash lights and fat numbers. The person who own the vehicle before had 4 ITR in Modesto, CA. 2-1997 1-2000 and 1-2001 (which was torn apart for parts). The Engine in my son's 97 ITR "B18c5 - 1998" Not sure if the Engine is original.

Hybrid96EK

So the gauge cluster has been swapped out. Now, let me ask you AGAIN. Does the car just quit at 7k when you mention the tach is "bouncing" around or do it continue to rev, just with the tach jumping around like mad? Is it like hitting a rev limiter and you can FEEL the engine cutting out? Maybe make a video of the tach and the problem?

jdmspoonitr

iTrader: (1)

4 ITR's in Modesto. LOL sounds like a car thief.