igorka_91

iTrader: (1)

Hey HT
Im debating what would be better of the two. There is a guy on here selling a complete PROTHANE polyurethane master bushing kit for a great price. Same price as the energy suspension kit. My question. What would be better. Any experiences.
thanks

ElementzofR

i like energy suspension. i heard prothane is stiffer.

racebum

prothane is harder, both to install and in material. the energy kit is cheap new from amazon and fits perfectly

ElementzofR

^^^ditto

igorka_91

iTrader: (1)

if the seller still has it. hes selling it for the same price as the energy kit.
just wanting to know whats better in quality.

ElementzofR

get the energy suspension

dillie

i have the full energy kit on my teg and i love it actually i think it rides better, course my bushings were in crppyy condition but its not too bad i like the ride just make sure you keep plenty of white lithium grease on them makes them last allot longer i just got one of the spray can ones from advance and every month jack it up and spray some on it and call it a day

PatrickGSR94

iTrader: (1)

Neither, they both suck. Polyurethane does not allow the suspension to move throughout its proper range of motion. They bind, they dry out, they squeak, they WILL NOT LAST as long as rubber bushings, and they develop way more slop than rubber bushings after only a few years.

You can either use those and then have to do maintenance on them several times a year just to keep them from squeaking, or you can spend a bit more and get HardRace or similar brand hard rubber bushings and forget about them.

igorka_91

iTrader: (1)

My suspension has over 140k miles on it already. So something has to be done sooner or later.

Can you explain a bit more on the "proper range of motion"??? Thanks
The guy is letting it go for cheaper then the new energy kit is. Except he lives in south bay area with is an hour plus drive for me.

PatrickGSR94

iTrader: (1)

Certain suspension bushings on Hondas are designed with a range of motion that isn't always exactly perpendicular to the bolt (or pivot bar) going through the bushing. Also certain bushings are designed to deflect a certain amount under certain loading conditions. The large trailing arm bushings are a good example of this.

Polyurethane bushings really only allow motion exactly perpendicular to the bolt or pivot bar passing through it, causing the bushing to bind if it's asked to move outside that perpendicular plane.

Also, poly bushings do not have the same resiliency as rubber. Over time, poly bushings can deform into a certain position, or even crack. This does not happen with rubber bushings.

$250-$275 for a full HardRace bushing kit. I highly recommend it.

igorka_91

iTrader: (1)

Makes sense to me. I daily the car so i wouldn't want it to have a weird *** handling suspension. Ill look into that HardRace bushing kit.

Dogginator

@PatrickGSR94: The ITR community talks quite a bit about spherical bushings on the rear lower arms. I know that Hard Race makes both spherical and normal bushings. The spherical are typically used for racing applications due to the better geometry, I do not know if they have a detriment on the street. Kiwi would be a good resource for this.

PatrickGSR94

iTrader: (1)

I remember seeing one company selling sphericals with some kind of rubber or neoprene boot over the rotational assembly. Most do not have those, though, and would wear out fairly quickly with daily street use and exposure to road dirt and grime. I'm not sure how the ones with the boots would hold up to street use.

While it is true that spherical is the best for allowing proper suspension range of motion and keeping the geometry true throughout the range of motion, I believe the increased NVH would get pretty annoying pretty quick and outweigh any handling improvements on public roads. And when they do wear out, I believe the play in the spherical bearings would be even worse than worn rubber bushings.

For these reasons I never recommend spherical except for track cars or nearly-dedicated track cars that see very limited street use (to and from the track, meets, shows, etc).

Dogginator

My '97 GSR is due for new bushings this year. HardRace looks like the sensible options.

PatrickGSR94

iTrader: (1)

I had all of my 16 yr old bushings replaced with HR in early 2010, except for the rear LCA's (running Function7's) and my front UCA's (using new OEM arms that are only a couple years old). Haven't had any problems or noise at all. Alignment also seems to "keep" longer than it used to.

racebum

the life of poly seems to depend on where a person drives and how well lubed they were at install. if you do a good job with the gorilla snot and don't live in climate that salt the road or have a lot of humidity in the air they seem to live quite a while

the trailing arm bushings are the most debated of all. in short, some guys like them, some don't they do move through the range of motion. in fact you can test this by hand with no springs or shocks on the rear suspension.

hard race is the natural choice for those who like the feel of oem bushings BUT they have two major drawbacks

1. they suck to install
2. you must clock them when binding bolts

this means when you pull your suspension apart you have to do the pain in the *** tire jacking before you tighten the bolts or else you'll bind the bushing.

if you live in a climate where energy gets a lot of complaints they could be a choice

one of the more quirky parts of this thread is actually with patrick and the parts. he's had bad luck with energy, has hardrace now but also has function 7 arms which come with energy bushings...figure that one out ?

supposedly F7 had energy change something in the bushing makeup for them. however when asked they never will reply with what is actually changed

SHO-NUFF

What?

PatrickGSR94

iTrader: (1)

F7 arms have bushings specially made by ES for them. They do not require lubrication. They've been on my car about 1 1/2 years now with zero issues. I'm okay with those because they don't require lubrication, and also because F7 will replace them no questions asked if they ever wear out, plus the design of them allows them to be quickly changed by hand with the LCA's still on the car (if you're only doing the shock fork bushings for example).

Unfortunately ES or Prothane bushings do not share these characteristics with the other bushings on the car.

The main experience that turned me off from poly bushings was my polyurethane shifter bushings. Those are not suspension bushings, they're not loaded like suspension bushings, and they don't rotate like suspension bushings. So really those bushings should never need any kind of lubrication. So after having them in my car about 4 years or so, they looked like this:



There was massive freeplay in them after just those few years. My old original rubber bushings that were removed at about 8 years old were nowhere near this bad. As such I went back to brand new shifter bushings a couple years back and they're worlds better.

After this experience I started looking around H-T in the Suspension and Road Race forums and saw several other reports and pics of how bad polyurethane bushings can really be. I know of one guy who went from polyurethane trailing arm bushings to Mugen rubber (he said they looked exactly like stock) and the car handled MUCH more predictably on the track.

igorka_91

iTrader: (1)

Damn that's looks like some ants chewed up on it lol. I'm running the Mcfactory solid shifter bushings. The only thing that i disliked about it. Is the little boot that goes on the shifter rood were your uuhh linkage connects to. Poorly designed IMO. I was scratching my head when i was putting it on and thinking what Chinese child designed it .

Function7

*wave hand* These are not the droids you're looking for.



-A

aleks77

Hardrace doesnt make a bushing kit for 90-97 accord

What would you guys recommend then? Stock bushings all around? Or replace some bushings with Poly?

I can also get my hands on Upper Control Arm anchor bolts with Hardrace spherical bearings. Thanks for any help!