swtslvrmonkey

Here I have the following results on my 94 GSR after it failed smog emissions:



I failed in both in HC and NO

The inspector told me that the timing was at 20 degrees, and it should be 16. So that is step 1.

However as far as the high HC and NO output, the inspector told me it's either the Cat or the O2- but couldn't tell me exactly. Both are pretty pricey [O2- $65 (Autozone), Cat-$80]. So I don't want to buy both right away without asking here (based on experience).

Things done before smog check:
Oil Change(new Honda filter), Cleaned Air Filter, New Spark Plugs (copper NGK)

Things inspected after the check:
- I took off the cat, and its a replacement Cat (looked clean)
-Took off the O2 from Cat (the O2 sensor is directly bolted onto the cat), and looked a bit rusty (Bosch) but fairly clean.
Inspector told me that when running the car at 15mph the O2 sensor was being "lazy" so it was hard to read


Any tips/ideas? Thanks!

TunerN00b

swtslvrmonkey

What is that? I'm not familiar with it, thanks!

Bowman62

95 and up is emissions nevermind ur in cali my fault

Mt3c

Basic maintenance should be first, then fix your timing issues. I think the range should be 14-16 Degrees.

I would do the O2 sensor first, as the technician said it was "lazy" (responding slowly). You can find a cheaper O2 sensor online for around $30. It's the universal 4 wire type, made by NGK and as good as OEM parts. Easy to install too. Sorry, don't have a link, but shouldn't be too hard to find.

Change of Owner
Are you the New owner?
If you are...
In California State law, it is the Owner's responsibility to smog the car before selling. If the previous owner didn't smog the car, and now it is failing, you sir can take him to court for the expenses. Go on dmv.ca.gov to find out more about this. But contact the previous owner and see what he can do to help remedy your smog problems.

Mt3c

Also, it helps if your cat is nice and hot during the testing, so don't bring it in cold.

AnDThEnWuT

I'm leaning more towards it being a dead cat. I had the same problem a few years back. Timing was correct but was giving off high HC and NOX so I changed the O2 sensor and that did little to the results, so I purchased a new cat and the end results was much better than I expected. I passed.

TunerN00b

Its a fuel additive. It burns cooler (reduces NOx) and cleaner (HC). Supposedly they'll pay for your smog check if you fail with it in the tank, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting. I have personally used it on an 88 Civic, saw a reduction of 30% or so in HC (probably dieing O2 sensor, sucker ran rich), and finally had a passing car.

Note: I have no clue as to the actual legality of running a fuel additive during a smog test.

swtslvrmonkey

Yea it is a change of ownership (mentioned in the smog results) and I'm the new owner (I didn't know about that law). I'll check out the smogging the car before selling issue, thanks for the tip.

Also I did the proper maintenance on the car as well (oil change etc). No check engine lights or any codes on the car. I'm momentarily fixing an exhaust leak due to two broken studs that hold the stock header.

Also the timing I didn't really check until after the test, but that should be an easy fix. As far as the O2 sensor, i haven't really found any cheap ones online yet. Most I've seen are $60+, cheapest being at Autozone (Bosch).

The Cat looks like it has been replaced but I'm unsure if it is still good. Any more ideas are welcome, thanks fellas.

mouab18c1

iTrader: (5)

if your ignition timing is at 20 degrees then your too advance...get a timing gun and re time it to stock timing at 16 degrees...as for the o2 and cat i would try switching out the o2 before switching the cat

jdm91ls

all i can say is i had the same problem with my ek hatch that i used to have and it was the cat

DA9_SE

When I bought my '91 GS, I took it to smog the next day, and the smog shop told me they could not smog it because it had failed smog a week earlier. Apparently, the guy who sold it to me smogged it a week before and it failed. I guess he couldn't fix it so he sold it to me and of course he didn't tell me that it failed smog. That's probably why he played dumb whenever I asked him questions about the car. After I left the smog shop, I called him and of course, no answer, no voicemail, no email responses, NOTHING. What a BASTARD!

Anyway, because the shop I took it to wouldn't smog the car, I didn't know why it failed. So I called the smog shop that did the smog a week before and told them I lost the smog report that they gave me. Fortunately, it was still early enough for them to have it in their computer. They told me that my car failed because of too much NOX.

As for the OP's situation.....I say that if your CAT still looks good and is a compatiable replacement one, it should be fine. Since you've already change the spark plugs, look into new O2 sensors like what the other members have said.

What I did to my car was that I changed the spark plugs, did a valve adjustment, changed the oil and filter, changed the rear main seal, spark plug seals, valve cover gasket, and cam plug. After that, it passed smog with flying colors.

Oh, and about the CA state law of seller having to smog for a transfer of ownership.......yeah, it's true. The DMV guy gave me a good lecture about it when I went to pay for registration. You can take the seller to court for the cost of fixing the car, but if your BILL OF SALE states that the car is sold AS-IS and/or BUYER SMOG, you are pretty much out of luck.

FYI: Go pay for your registration even if you can't get the car to pass smog. They will give you a temp tag. You have 10 days after of the sell date to pay or they will charge you an arm and leg for penalties.

Good luck.

oo9o9xaznoo

Honestly 90% of the time replacing the CAT will fix any problem that has to do with emissions. You won't see any problem with it again after the cat burns out a few years later. If your looking for a quick fix just replace the cat.

Bring the timing down to 15 degrees. That will somewhat lower your Nox level but theres a possibility that your HC will go up. I would recommend replacing the o2 sensors. Replace the bad gas cap, its a possibility that the purge canister valve cannot vent the gas tank into the intake in which help reduce HC. Thats all i can really think of.

TOO MUCH TORQUE

what were your before/after smog results

swtslvrmonkey

I have not taken it back to get it retested, so the numbers you see above in the first post are the numbers I got when I did the following:

-Oil/Oil Filter change
-Sparkplugs
-Cleaned Air Filter

As far as the bill of sale, I don't have a formal one, however I did sign a piece a paper with the owner stating that the car was being sold "as-is", so I'm pretty much out of luck, I wish I would have known about that law beforehand....

....which is why (since funds are limited at the moment), I was trying to avoid purchasing both Cat and O2, and just replacing one, if necessary.

I was planning on changing the timing and lower it to 14-16 degrees (that was my next move), then replace the O2 sensor.

I'm momentarily replacing:

-Cam Plug (P72 Part- O-ring)
-Vtec Solenoid Gasket
-Distributor O Ring

Since there is a minor leak on the distributor side and at the cam cap, but replacing all three just to be safe.

Does anyone know where I could find a cheap O2 sensor online, I've looked and so far no luck. Thanks fells once again

swtslvrmonkey

Also I called my local muffler/exhaust shop today and I was told that Pre-1995 (OBD1) catalytic converters are no longer legal here in California. Apparently I have to wait for a new version of an OEM replacement Cat in order to get a new one (I'm guessing from any exhaust shop out here)

I'm not entirely sure if this is true, but I am having a hard time finding a Catalytic Converter for my 94 GSR, since the O2 sensor is plugged in directly at the Cat.

Help....:tu:

neardon

My Integra passed without a cat and a old flowmaster muffler although not in cali. You need some IPA or rubbing alcohol. Get the highest precentage you can, then pour a full bottle in half a tank of gas and drive around for 15 or 20 minutes and your car should pass with flying colors. Its a lot cheaper than the "Guarnteed to pass" crap.

DC_Legacy

You could move to FL. We dont do checks here anymore. Otherwise I'd say you have a pretty good check list of things to get it up to par.

mouab18c1

iTrader: (5)

you dont need to change your timing belt to set it back to 16 degrees...ignition timing with a timing gun will do the trick....

Mt3c

http://www.sparkplugs.com is where I bought my NGK O2 sensor.

SlammedDC2teg

x2

swtslvrmonkey

I know..i said timing, not timing belt.

Also any sources for catalytic converters?

I found this posting on California emissions for Pre-OBDII vehicles (like my car):

http://www.car-sound.com/04basics/04california.asp

AnDThEnWuT

pepboys, kragens, autozone. they sell universal ones for around 90 bucks. than pay 30-40bucks for the muffler shop to weld it on, or buy one that is a direct fit for 140bucks and install it yourself. I went with the universal since I had a different motor in my car.

swtslvrmonkey

I think the cheapest I found is here:

http://dotcomparts.com/
$73.10

I'm wondering if its the right one for my 94 GSR.
Or should I go with a high-flow cat. I read there is relatively no difference from that of a stock DD cat.

AnDThEnWuT

get the high flow cat, I want to see if you pass or not.