So after going through 3 track days of dropping out of VTEC around hard left-hand corners, I finally got an oil pressure gauge

So now that I am aware of what my oil pressure is exactly, I did some road testing. Normal idle is approx. 20psi. Cruising is approx. 70psi. WOT is approx. 80psi, with a quick dip at VTEC crossover.

Heres the fun stuff...there is no noticeable fluctuation during normal cornering and driving, but once I attack a corner sharp and fast, the pressure drops, and a lot. The lowest I saw was close to 45psi, and typically it was around 50 during quick corners. The kicker behind all of this, I have a baffled pan

I can only assume the pressure drops way lower on the track with my Advans, since I can only carry so many lateral G's on the street with street tires.

I've since dissassembled my entire PCV sytem, replaced the O-ring to the block from the breather cannister, and replaced the PCV valve. No affect on oil pressrue. Next in line to replace is oil pump and maybe even pickup.

Can anyone feed me some advice or any personal experience regarding this type of pressure loss? Perhaps point me in other directions of where to look for causes...

TIA

Added video:
Right click save as:
http://www.itrspec.com/VIDS/ITR/MOV00960.MPG



Modified by 92TypeR at 1:43 PM 9/5/2004

 

Have you checked to see if your pan was put in correctly or if its "Baffled enough" don't really know what to say just wanna help cause seemed like no one else would.....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by knalige &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Have you checked to see if your pan was put in correctly or if its "Baffled enough" don't really know what to say just wanna help cause seemed like no one else would.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

I installed the pan myself and yes, torquing was done properly and there are no leaks. On top of that, the problem started before the baffles, and the baffles were an attempt to remedy the problem...doesn't look like they made any sort of a difference. Thanks though.

 

Have you tried using a crank scraper to remove the oil that clings to the crank?

 

have you checked your oil level?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by doublejz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">have you checked your oil level? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Of course. At the track I overfill 3/4 a quart. Presently I'm on the full dot for the street.

I'm thinking a new pump, shimmed, and new pickup may fix the problem. Does anyone know a good place to get these OEM parts for cheap?

Here is a video we took going down a series of corners to show the drop in pressure. The corners weren't taken fast enough to dip under 40 psi, but it gets to about 45psi on the last corner, and you can definately see the pressure dropping right about apex of most corners.

Right click save as:
http://www.itrspec.com/VIDS/ITR/MOV00960.MPG

 

I don't know but to me it seems that the oil will not hold through the corners where the baffle is open. You think that pan is not doing the job? I'm not saying that's the problem but it could be. The mugen oil pan is filled in that area.

Here is a pic of a Mugen oil pan from a honda tech member



Looking at yours

 

I am almost certain that the problem is not oil pan related. Every other track driven B18C honda/acura I've seen has no problems around corners with oil pressrue. There has to be something wrong with the system, a clog, or something to do with the pickup/pump.

Ontop of that, the reliefs around the side of the baffles offer drainback for the oil, which is equally important for keeping oil around the pickup.

I'm stuck, I'm just going to buy a new pump, and hope for the best.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92TypeR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am almost certain that the problem is not oil pan related. Every other track driven B18C honda/acura I've seen has no problems around corners with oil pressrue. There has to be something wrong with the system, a clog, or something to do with the pickup/pump.

Ontop of that, the reliefs around the side of the baffles offer drainback for the oil, which is equally important for keeping oil around the pickup.

I'm stuck, I'm just going to buy a new pump, and hope for the best.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Cool I just thought i'd share that

 

92typer - just wondering, when you replaced the oil plan, did you maybe remove the baffle plate as well and not reinstall it? if your car is used and was worked on before in this area, maybe the baffle plate was not reinstalled.

it's the plate just below the crank. if it's not there, maybe some of the oil is sloshing around before it even gets back to the pan. just a thought. i'm looking at the oil pickup assembly drawing on 8-5 in the helms and can't think of anything else.

that's strange that you had low pressures even before the baffled pan install.

kepani

 

For discounted Acura factory parts and GREAT service, give H-T member Len a call at Baranco Acura. I hear they may be there today - Labor Day - Yikes!

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=977771

 

I bring back that thread to life cause i'm experiencing the exact prob the guy mention at first... Lost of my vtec in hi-g's corner...Even after a big "SS" then a straith line, I could feel a little drop of the vtec for let's say 1 sec then comming back on... Since then, I've installed a baffle pan. I also thought it would solve the prob but didn't.

What I've found, on my side it was that my Vtes lost was happening after a couple min on track... Let say the first few laps seems to be ok but the more I laps, the worst it get...Topped 1/4 quart help for few laps...

Could an oil too hot could loose enough pressure that the VTEC could'nt get on? I've tried different grade of oil 5w30/5w40/5w50 and din't see enought difference to say that oil would cause the problem

An other thing I'd like to know is how vtec pt engagement is managed vs oil pressure...How does it work? i.e. if my vtec engagement pt is set lower (4300rpm) is that mean that the vtec solenoid put the vtec on with lower pressure vs a vtec engagement pt set at 5700rpm? Or the pressure needed for vtec engagement would be the same for any vtec engagement pt?

 

Try this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VTEC

 

any cue at what could be causing the lost of VTEC?

 

Low oil pressure. If you don't find a resolution to this you run the risk of taking out your whole valve train, camshafts and all.

 

what I want to know is what could cause that low oil pressure went cornering... If you read what I've wrintin of course...

 

The oil is getting aerated. Aerated oil negatively affects the operation of hydraulic circuits because the entrained air is compressible. Similar problems arise with the diesel engines that use engine oil to pressurize the injectors.

 

This thread won't DIE.

 

I thought that I would comment on it because this weekend a guy dropped off an engine to have a pattern made for it. While he was here he noticed that I had a GSR block with a good head, cams, etc. sitting there. I said he could have the head for free if he wanted to pull it off. They just make the cores more difficult to move around for me -- bulk and weight. I also gave him the head off of a KA24DE core from an Altima so he could play around with it.

While he was pulling the B18C1 cams to get to the head bolts we were talking about the nifty mechanism Honda designed for changing the cam profile.

Also, last week I wrote to a couple people (Professor and grad student) from MIT that had published an interesting SAE paper on aeration a couple years ago. It was a follow up on a paper that the professor had co-authored about five years ago.

With respect to the SRT4, Dodge went through some bad moments with the hydraulic lifters in the 2.2 and 2.5 -- their fixes went into the 2.4.

It is all related but unfortunately spans a fair amount of time. Anyways...

Cute Mogwai avatar. Stripe?

 

Now that it's alive, I'm actually wondering what the resolution was for 92TypeR. Was it a problem with the pump or pickup? Maybe the gasket between the pickup and block?

 

I tore the motor out shortly after since nothing I did could fix the problem.

I bought a B18C block that I had sleeved, built, and has been my warrior motor for the last 4 years. I figured if I was going to replace the oil pump and associated parts I might as well go all out. I couldn’t be happier, the 2.0L is great for the track, and with the 4.9FD low RPM woes are gone. I stay above 140wtq from 3000 RPM to redline, great powerband. No oil pressure problems with the new motor. I reused the oil pan, pickup and windage tray, so those items were not the cause. It could have been the pump, which was replaced with a new OEM unit of course.

On the old motor, there were a few areas on the #2 and #3 rod bearings where they looked to have touched, but not spun, just enough discoloration from metal-to-metal contact. If I had done another track day, I could’ve killed my VIN matching block. Glad I tore it out when I did.

If I did not have the funds to build the 2.0L at the time, I would’ve replaced the oil pump and pickup, and possibly upgrade to a better baffled pan or add an accusump.

 

I still think it is aerated oil. This is a really, really common problem, believe it or not.

You never mentioned your oil level which was questioned. You got a new block -- is it possible the dipsticks are calibrated differently? Is the oil pickup tube a different length?

You might have subconsciously modified your driving style and don't have the G-spike. You might have changed your suspension so that the car does not lean as much. The effective angle of repose of the oil in the pan would be that due to the lateral acceleration plus gravity _plus_ the tilt of your car.

Did you renew your engine or tranny mounts? The D15/D16 pan, for example, is very sensitive to this, i.e. the angle that the engine sits at. It can cause pooling of the oil from one side to the other.

Did you gain or lose weight? This can cause the same problem. I suspect very few people check this -- get into the car and have someone put a level on the motor.

I am doing a design for an expensive aftermarket pan that is used with the Zetec. Just .25 liters will cause flooding of the rotating assembly in 1G plus turns. The oil collects on top of the windage tray.

Anyways, I think you can see that there are many things to check out.

 

Kevin, I understand your points, but I feel that if they were potential issues a lot more Honda guys would be having these problems.

As for someone's body weight affecting the engine angle, I don't see how that would matter for anything other than sitting still, as the car would be moving side to side significantly through any corner.

His oil level was 3/4qt overfull on track and full on the street, btw.

 

Same oil system migrated from the C5 block to the sleeved block, except a new OEM ITR oil pump.

I suppose it is possible for the dipstick length to be slightly different, but not on the magnitude of +/- 1qt. They are physically identical blocks, minus the Benson sleeves, which do not alter the drain path for the oil.

Same type of tires & same suspension. Driving style may have altered a bit, but I am still running on the same track, still cornering at roughly the same speeds as before. I should note it was not at the 'limit' where the oil pressure would drop, pretty much anything past 5/10th's effort around a corner on R-compound tires would produce a drop of oil pressure. I had to 'baby' it around left-hand corners to prevent it.

Same mounts w/urethane inserts. Not stiff by any means, but not worn/sloppy.

It could be aerated oil, not eliminating that as a possibility, but since the problem has yet to recur since the new motor, I am not worried much. Good luck with your pan design.

 

No worries. As long as the thread is beneficial, I'm game with it being brought back. And yeah he kinda looks like Stripe, but he's actually a Furby.