I'll let Tom post up his viewpoint: My view may be a little skewed, simply because I was watching the road, and then tach most of the time...

My setup:

'00 itr
toda header
toda spec b cams
toda valve springs
toda cam gears (+2in, 0exh)
portflow Ti retainers
apexi VAFC
aem cai
godspeed test pipe
stock exhaust, head, block, compression, tranny, wheels and re010's, full interior w/ spare, jack and tools, etc.

Untuned I dyno'd 175 and 124lb/ft untuned with open header. The only difference right now is that I have connected the test pipe and stock exhaust to quiet the car down... I dunno how that has affected the output.

His setup:
"1992 Civic Si Hatch with a 1998 ITR swap with AEM CAI, Tanabe RM Exhaust, blah blah... 175whp and 123ft-lbs. "
I think this is on a kenji skunk2 ecu - which seems to make nice power from what i could tell.
Oh yeah, he has the ats 4.929 final drive and gsr 5th gear on an otherwise stock usdm itr tranny...

We did some pulls in 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th with very interesting results. Then we took each other for some drag pulls from a dead stop so we could feel how each other's car pulled... I've got some video of that, and will try to upload it tonight.

Well, needless to say he pulled on me in every gear - even 5th I think.....

It seemed that the higher the gear, the less he would pull, and I could hold him off in 4th and through 5th when we did a 4-5 pull... (Hold him off in this case means keep him from walking me badly, but he did have a 2-3 car lead already! )

Damn, I was already sold on the final drive but now I can't wait to get the damn thing in! He was able to chirp 1-4 with me in the car!

In summary: he basically would jump on me in each gear at like 4k rpms or so and pull on me 1-2 (or maybe 3+?) lengths until about 6200 rpms where that lessened, and I seemed to hold more and keep him from pulling or as much...

This effect was less in 4th and of course in 5th gears, but 2nd was murder!

Luckily, I have already ordered this gear and it should be here tomorrow! Then it'll be time for a rematch!

Here's the comparo thread he posted up on a differently equipped itr with jdm fd:


https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=90791


And here's a thread I posted up a while back on a jdm fd itr:


https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=76836

 

I'm not autoX-ing anymore. j/k.

Good tests... it seems that Tom's well into the 13's now from the sounds of it.

 

but he has a hatchbox. He does have a weight advantage. Im thinking at least 200lbs. So Im wondering if it will make any much difference. Would it suck if you get the gearing and you still cant pull on him. Im not trying sound like a bych but i would be upset. I say go for it, then you will know.

 

Your accounts of the runs seem to be on point. I think the biggest differnce was the drop at 80 mph.

We both dropped into 4th, but on a stock tranny I used to have to blip 3rd and ****** 4th so it wouldn't bog - Ken started in 4th anyways, and that to me was the biggest difference. I was at 7100 or so on the 4th gear drop and it pulled right through 4th and into 5th. There is a very SLIGHT delay into 5th, but it is very short and the RPMs still rise quickly enough to tach-out in 5th with ease.

He crept a little bit in 5th, but then my car began to crawl away and I also think that my 8900RPMs in 5th helped me keep going strong too. (Yes, we were hauling ***!)

The ride in his ITR was nice. I can feel the difference in his VTEC, even though he's at a weight disadvantage - I'm pretty good at judging that **** because my buddy has a 2000 ITR and I'm very familiar with how it pulls.

I saw you when I barked 4th - very funny. I REALLY hope the video has audio on it, because to me that's the best part as I'm running through gears 1-4. The clutch is HELLA strong, and it has also chirped 5th too - not that I'm all into barking, but c'mon, barking 5th? Funny **** nontheless.

What I'm looking for from you, is confirmation on the RPM drops between shifts - well, what did you think? The 1-2 is crazy or what?

If I can get some good footage of the tach while tearing through gears 1-4, can one of you convert it to digital and upload it somewhere so we can all see it?

LATE. I'll be checking in, and thanks for the kind words BlackR.

 

That hatch weighs a lot less than your car. You would have to make at least 15-20 hp more than he does to pull next to him.

 

[QUOTE]
The clutch is HELLA strong, and it has also chirped 5th too - not that I'm all into barking, but c'mon, barking 5th?QUOTE]

sounds like you should have swapped in a clutch type unit with that final too....glad to hear you are impressed.

 

Let's do some math, okay?

My car is an SI Hatch, and it weighs 2280 w/o driver. NOT the usual 2080 for CX.

I weigh 160 and my fincee' (who was in the car during all runs) weighs (guessing) 120lbs? (**** that's bad, I know, but it's important...)

Anyways The ITR weighs 2600.

Add 150 to that (pretty sure we're same weight)

So, I was at 2550 - he was at 2750. 200lbs. is right. You equation guys can give us the formula to see the real disadvantage, right?

I'd like to see the ITR AFTER tuning those B's...BEFORE you drop in the ATS. Then we could run again, and then again after the cams.

I need a CX for real. I love my car and all, and the body is near perfect and the paint is too, but i'd love to be dipping LOW 13's rather than 13.9, you know?

I won't be able to see the differnce at the strip with the 4.929 FD because the strips are closed until Spring. By then I hope to have some cams in.


[Modified by B18C5-EG6, 5:22 PM 11/19/2001]

 

Yeah, we didn't take into account drag limitations of the wind or how much fuel we each had in the car...

So what?

The point was that in doing some of these highway pulls, you can see the real world effects of the ats final drive giving his car a nice advantage at the wheels - even though I had the horsepower advantage from 4k rpms up to peak...

Our max whp is about the same and the 200lbs is pretty negligible... I had a little over 1/3 tank of gas, btw...

And yes, I weigh 150.

 

My plan is to get Jun 3s, because I hear they are the best drag racing cams, over the Bs.. Would the ATS Final Drive and GSR 5th gear be a good combo with the Jun 3s?

 

Only one way to find out..... Try it and see!

I dunno about jun 3's with this fd because of their vtec kick being so hard you get wheelspin there with the usdm itr tranny... You'll definitely get more pull everywhere in the rpm band with a jdm or ats fd though - so that might help out before vtec.

But with toda b's and c's, the power is more... linear and that is why I felt this would be a good mod. I'm not so much interested in straight line acceleration, that's a nice bonus, but at autox and road racing is where I hope this will help me...

 

Wait, are you saying that with Jun 3s, when VTEC kicks in there is wheelspin? even with normal acceleration?

 

The jun 3's would be perfect with the ats fd, the jun make power up high so you can take advantage of the higher revs the fd will give ya. I'm sure no matter what cam you use if you have a ats fd your gonna screech the tires in vtec.

 

If you're looking at jun 3's, I'm going to suggest you do a lot of research to know what you are getting into. I'm merely suggesting you do the things you would do out of common sense before making such a "major" purchase: find some people with these cams. Get their impressions. Take a ride in a well tuned example of these cams. Find out the pro's and cons. What peripherals and accoutrements will you need to get the most out of such a setup?

And yes, I'm saying that the vtec crossover with the type 3's is "schizophrenic." That is an accurate description of what happens when vtec kicks in at WOT and 4.4 fd. You get some spin - on the street and of course at the track. This should only happen once at the strip though, because you launch and get wheelspin - then stay in vtec for the 2-3 and 3-4 shifts... On the road course or autox, this could be a little disconcerting if you are in a hairpin and have to decide whether you'll be out of vtec, or spinning in the next lower gear... I suppose you can deal with it either way if you're a good driver.

I'd already decided on the b's and since I have them in, I felt this mod would compliment them nicely. With the c's as an upgrade for me in the future, I still felt this mod would still work well... there is much to be said for consistent (linear) power delivery.

I can't see any repurcussions of having this ats fd at all. And don't tell me mileage - you can drive 500 rpm slower and go 75 instead of 80mph if you're worried about that.

 

how much is the ats fd and who sells it on the net

oh here --> http://www.racingcraft.com


[Modified by kent, clark, 2:11 AM 11/20/2001]

 

Kenny from my experience 200lbs = roughly .3-.4 in the 1/4 mile.
So you are doing good from the way you described the pulls.
I can't wait to do some 3-4 gear pulls with you on dyno day.
LATA.

P.S. if i want lower gearing i'll get smaller diameter tires..