I am in the process of upgrading my suspension and i am about to install a complete bushing kit. I am also planning on getting a set of the Mugen trailing arm bushings because of the fact that they are made form the hard rubber and not the Urethane. In my search for the cheapest place to buy the Mugen bushings i ran into the Alex racing rear trailing arm bushings.

http://www.aj-racing.com/alex/Alex-suspension.html

Now from what I read, he took the standard Mugen hard rubber bushing and filled it with Urethane. My understanding is that the Urethane bushings prevent certain motions in your suspension causing uncharacteristic handling traits. So what would the effect of the Urethan filled AJR bushiongs be. Would the outer Hard rubber compliment the suspension movement enough that the inner Urethane would reinforce the bushing with no negative effects?

Any comments are appreciated

anyone know of any other bushing that are not included in the ES Hyper-Flex master bushing set? Or any other bushings that should be replaced with ther Mugen rubber counterparts to avoid altering the handling characteristics?

 

E&S TA bushings are not good. I run Mugen.

 

I run Mugen bushings all around except for Orijin bushings in front UCA and front of front LCA. Works fabulous.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by descartesfool &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I run Mugen bushings all around except for Orijin bushings in front UCA and front of front LCA. Works fabulous.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I run rear trailing arm bushings, and Orijin bushings in front LCAs and UCAs.
(Check signature for link)



Made a huge difference in the feel of the car, it was VERY easy to tell when I was overdriving the car, and what the car was doing...but the rumble strips at BeaveRun made the camera go haywire

 

I can't read Japanese but anyone know anything about the J's racing bushings?
Good thing I found the English version.(clicks button in bottom left corner)

J'S RACING SPL rear trailing arm pillow bush


It doesn't say to much about them (what they are made of, ect.)
38,000 Yen = $350.00
must be something special about them

 

I believe cusco makes spherical bearings/bushings for the rear trailing arms. You can find them on http://www.takakaira.com

 

yah it says that they make them but doesn't give much info, or any pictures.

You have any other info on them?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jon V &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yah it says that they make them but doesn't give much info, or any pictures.

You have any other info on them?</TD></TR></TABLE>

no other info.

Try contacting the people here: http://www.napsusa.com/napsusa....html

They're helpful with cusco stuff, unfortunately, they don't list the bushings on their site.

 

I am assuming that you guys are taking the trailing arm to some one to press out? Or can this be installed w\o taking the trailing arm off?

 

Read this

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=606414


And click the link in the first line too!

 

well from what I found it's a whole lot easier to get to the bushing if you have the arm off the car, but I was doing the rear disc conversion. you can try to get it out yourself I just burned the **** out of it w/ a torch or you can take it somewhere that has a press a little more $$ but alot easier

 

you can hit out easily but to get the new one in is a bitch. i tried to hit it in with no luck so as soon as i could i took it to my shop and pressed it in. no problem with a press. oh yeah im using the mugen ones for my hatch

 

So no one has any experience with anything other than the Mugen bushings?

No J's racing,
no Alex racing,
and no Cusco?

I don't want to use any Urethane bushings, I am looking for something made of a hard rubber and posssibly the combination of rubber and Urethane.

And yes I do think that the whole trailing arm will have to be removed to replace the bushing. Other wise it would be pretty hard to get to, especially since you are going to spend some time taking the old one out.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eee Pee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Read this

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=606414


And click the link in the first line too!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Was this for me?

I don't have time to read all this info right now but maybe I will print it out and read it later. Its a pretty long one.

 

no one has ever seen this befor?

Alex Racing
Trailing Arm Bushing



Under acceleration, weight naturally transfers to the rear wheels. When this occurs, a great deal of force is placed upon the lower trailing arm bushing. When the trailing arm bushing is compressed, the suspension assumes more toe out, thereby hurting acceleration and high speed stability. This can be counteracted with stiffer trailing arm bushings. Likewise, under cornering, more force is placed on the outer trailing arm bushing. A stiffer bushing improves handling response, stability, and the predictability of the car's rear. Alex's Trailing Arm Bushing is actually a Mugen unit that has been modified by Alex. Alex fills the Mugen bushing with urethane, substantially increasing the stiffness.


I can't even find a picture of the Mugen bushings?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jon V &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no one has ever seen this before?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, but why pay JDM prices for something that looks like an ES bushings?


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jon V &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Alex's Trailing Arm Bushing is actually a Mugen unit that has been modified by Alex. Alex fills the Mugen bushing with urethane, substantially increasing the stiffness.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't see how this can be true... the two don't look anything alike.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JeffS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes, but why pay JDM prices for something that looks like an ES bushings?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Looks have little effect in the bushings department. I have the ES bushings and let me assure you they are nothing alike. They are made totally of Urethane and would restrict suspension movement, if the Alex bushings allowed the full suspension movement and the added stiffness of a Urethane bushing it would be the best of both worlds, no?


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JeffS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't see how this can be true... the two don't look anything alike.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jon V &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I can't even find a picture of the Mugen bushings?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I am real interested to find out what the J's racing bushings are made out of?

 

People debate over whether the ES bushings are any good or not but I don't want to get into that right now. My question is simple: you keep sayign that you want a hard stiff rubber bushin yet you don't want a polyurethane bushing which in fact is very hard and stiff.

I actually run the ES master kit with the addition of the trailing arm bushing and have never had any problems with unpredictablility. People have said they they don't like them because they "float" which I have not experienced. The compensator arm on the trailing arm along with the lca and uca keep the trailing arm in place. My ES trailing arm bushing is in the same offset position on the cross pin as the stock bushing was and the es has never traveled sided to side on the cross pin as some believe. I once saw a write up on ES and this particular bushing where the guy took a picture of the inside of his trailing arm and showed how the bushing seemed to be to far left (to the inside) on the cross pin when in fact that is exactly where it should be. The bushing is not supposed to be centered on the pin and is in fact positioned like this with the stock bushing.

Anyhow, sorry to rant... of course Mugen is better but I have not had any problems with the ES which of course is debateable depending on who you talk to.

I was able to burn out the stock bushing then press in the new one using two blocks of wood on each side of the trailing arm with a bolt going through them and the bushing. When you tighten the bolt down it presses the bushing in


Modified by h22avid at 11:12 AM 6/22/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jon V &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

They are made totally of Urethane and would restrict suspension movement,</TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually the suspension travel is fine since ES are floating bushings. Unlike the factory bushings which could bind, an ES bushing will never bind. There is plenty of movement or flex with urethane but not too much like a stock oem unit IMO. Eurethane is stiff and harder than rubber but not as stiff as you might believe. If they can be compressed when pressed in then I'm sure they are soft enoguh to flex when a 2000 lb. car is sweeping through corners sitting on them. People run spherical units that have absolutely no flex.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by h22avid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Unlike the factory bushings which could bind</TD></TR></TABLE>

They're designed to move in only one direction. Thats not binding.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> There is plenty of movement or flex with urethane but not too much like a stock oem unit. People run spherical units that have absolutely no flex. </TD></TR></TABLE>

The solid poly bushings dont allow for that range of motion that the OEM units provide. Its not about 'flex' and the spherical bushings are used in race cars for zero deflection and if installed right, cant bind.

If you're happy with them, then keep using them. Maybe they dont have a big effect, but I would prefer to have something that functions as the OEM part does, just stiffer.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The solid poly bushings dont allow for that range of motion that the OEM units provide.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is very true but remember, the oem design is not made with the racer in mind. They are designed for the average consumer that wants a smooth gentle ride. The average consumer does not want firm stiff responsive handling, they don't want to feel the road whereas I want all of the above.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They're designed to move in only one direction. Thats not binding.</TD></TR></TABLE>
In the case of the trailing arm bushing, you are absolutely right. I was speaking more in general terms about all of the bushings in your suspension.

But you said it perfectly, you have to use what you are happy with

BTW, I apologize for sending this thread OT... good luck in your quest Jon V

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by h22avid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> They are designed for the average consumer that wants a smooth gentle ride. The average consumer does not want firm stiff responsive handling, they don't want to feel the road whereas I want all of the above. </TD></TR></TABLE>

In terms of bushing material, yes.

The range of motion built in has nothing to do with ride comfort.

 

http://www.takakaira.com/asp/t...mipLk

here is the link to the Cusco Pillowball Mount Bushings

once again though it doesn't say what they are made out of, and it does not have a picture of the actual trailing arm bushing.

just this, which I am not sure of which bushing it is


It looks like it is a multi peice bushing, with an inner metal sleeve

RJ let me know if the pictures are to much, i'm going to try and find as many different manufacturers as I can

 

Looks like a spherical bushing in a rubber housing... similar to the Orijin (sp?) pieces.

Interesting...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jon V &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Looks have little effect in the bushings department.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ya think?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jon V &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have the ES bushings and let me assure you they are nothing alike. They are made totally of Urethane and would restrict suspension movement, if the Alex bushings allowed the full suspension movement and the added stiffness of a Urethane bushing it would be the best of both worlds, no?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's still the same design regardless (and the design is the "problem" not the material)... the only issue is the durometer of the Urethane, which you're not going to get without buying each piece and having it measured. That leaves you with nothing but speculation. My point was, that unless you are, in fact, going to buy both parts, then I don't see a point in experimenting with something other than ES or Mugen.

For the record, there are a lot of people who are quite happy with the ES or Prothane bushings. It wasn't until recently when one person "said so" that these began to be considered "crap" by some in this forum.


BTW, for those searching spherical bushings.... if you really want them, just carry your trailing arms to a decent race shop and have some fabricated.

 

If I can't find enough info on some of these bushings to make an educated desision I might just pick one of the unique ones (J's racing, Cusco, or the Alex racing) then i can give a review of them. Besides Mugen they all seem to be pretty expensive, for one reason or another. I am kind of interested to find out why, I think it has to do with the materials. They probly aren't rubber, which could be good or bad.

I can't beleive that no one here has experience with anything but the Mugens?

The Mugens are cheap enough that if I got something else and didn't like it I could easily pick up a set to replace the ones I didn't like (they are only $110 for the pair right?). I am just interested to find out weather these other products are more expensive becuase they work better, or just because they are made in Japan by another well known company.