would a ported out Std. manifold be equivilant (dare i say greater) to a log style manifold? i would assume the Std. would flow a little better due to the longer runners, but then again the log style manifold has larger runners. on my setup im planning on using a T3 super 60 and was curious if the log would be THAT much different then the Std. one. any insight would be greatly apreciated.

also, i plan on running an external wastegate so if you're suggesting a log manifold for solely that reason keep in mind i can A) run internal wastegate B) modify the Std. manifold to accept an external wg.

thank you HT

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ixiblindixi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">would a ported out Std. manifold be equivilant (dare i say greater) to a log style manifold? i would assume the Std. would flow a little better due to the longer runners, but then again the log style manifold has larger runners. on my setup im planning on using a T3 super 60 and was curious if the log would be THAT much different then the Std. one. any insight would be greatly apreciated.

also, i plan on running an external wastegate so if you're suggesting a log manifold for solely that reason keep in mind i can A) run internal wastegate B) modify the Std. manifold to accept an external wg.

thank you HT </TD></TR></TABLE>

well from what ive learned about log style manifolds is that they work on the exhaust pulses and pressure rather then focusing on "flow". As far as making more power with a log, thats a good question....For what its worth, a manifold that has better flow will aid in reducing turbo spool time. Now im not sure how efficient that STD manifold is.. IMO for the amount of money you will spend on porting that manifold and having a flange welded on, you could probably get a good log style manifold, and dont underestimate log manifolds, there are many people making great power with them...If you plan on getting a long style manifold, depending on your turbo, i would reccomend maxrev. They make log style manifolds that are build like tanks. I have one...and i couldnt be happier with it. I plan on keeping it for my next build as well..

Im not sure if i answered your question completley maybe not even at all but i just felt like throwing my 02 cents in.

 

thanks for your response. i searched and did learn that log manifolds work off pressure whereas tubular and equal length one's will work more off airflow and reduce boost creep. i ALSO found that log manifolds can/do withstand ridiculous numbers like 500-600 whp. im trying to find a good manifold for a good price. i got my eyes on a couple and have heard really good things from revhard and drag. i couldn't find any prices on the revhard but found the drag for +/- $200.

if anyone else can input or even list setups/dyno numbers from an std. manifold it would be GREATLY apreciated

edit: i would assume as well that not only will a tubular manifold decrease spool time but with the smaller runners it would decrease it even more if i were to use the std. one, therefore spooling the super 60 earlier on, but maintaining the pull throughout the high rpm's.........theoretically is this correct?

 

if you can afford the log, get it. it will perform 10x better.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by envision2teg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you can afford the log, get it. it will perform 10x better.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

why though

 

i am installing tomorrow the STD manifold with my 14B with my adapter plate

i will tell ya how it performs

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by envision2teg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you can afford the log, get it. it will perform 10x better.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
No it wont.
Also, a STD manifold and adapter plate is under $100. You can make your own
adapter plate and bring your cost down to $25-50 for just the manifold. You can
port match it, but you really need to get any crazier than that. Its not like a t3/t4
is going to be used. The 14b will be a nice match.

 

That is a really good question!

In fact I have been wondering the same thing. I haven't been able to find any solid information about the performance of a log style as compared to the std mani.

I have read a lot of responses like the one above, "the log mani will perform 10x better!!!" ... followed by absolutely no evidence

I would like to see some real evidence of the difference in flow from a log style to an std mani.

Personally, I ended up buying an std with an adapter plate for about $90 for both. I couldn't find a log mani for less than $180 (bmc racing) and because I couldn't find any good evidence to support the log mani over the std I didn't want to spend an extra $90 for no reason.

Maybe if someone posts some good info I'll sell my std and spend the extra $90 for a log.

I'm interested to hear what people have to say!!!

 

im glad i could stir up an interesting debate/conversation

<FONT SIZE="4">another question for the turbo heads</FONT>......im a top end freak, i believe in driving honda's like they're meant to be driven......would a small 16G turbo be too big for a 1.6 y7/z6 mini-me motor? i want something that will spool up a **** hair below 3 grand all the way up to redline.....i could score a 16G and was wondering if i should hop on it


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">edit: i would assume as well that not only will a tubular manifold decrease spool time but with the smaller runners it would decrease it even more if i were to use the std. one, therefore spooling the super 60 earlier on, but maintaining the pull throughout the high rpm's.........theoretically is this correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>

can anyone back this up?

 

bump

 

The 14b will flow great for the top end you are looking for. Port out the exhaust housing inlet and outlet a ton and you'll be fine. My roommate is running a stock 14b with lots of porting, revving to +7k on a B18B and not running out of flow at all up top

 

i know about the 14b's but my question is regarding the 16G and the std. manifold

 

well if a 14b(smaller than 16G) doesn't run out of flow on a B18B(bigger than D16) than a bigger turbo and smaller motor like you are suggesting is definately going to be uneccessary. I was suggesting that if the 14b flows fine for a bigger motor, it will flow fine for you.

 

*sigh* thats great and all, but im not asking about the 14b. there's a guy running a T3/T4 on a d16 so i wouldn't say the 16G is too big. i wanted to hear specifically from people who had a 16G on their car. in my eyes, it's between the 16G or the T3 super 60

 

get the 14B
change the wheels and make it a big 16G and tell us
i will be installing my kit tonite and will find out how well the 14B is

keep u guys posted

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ixiblindixi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">*sigh* thats great and all, but im not asking about the 14b. there's a guy running a T3/T4 on a d16 so i wouldn't say the 16G is too big. i wanted to hear specifically from people who had a 16G on their car. in my eyes, it's between the 16G or the T3 super 60</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just because someone is running a turbo doesn't mean it's appropriate. Both the 16G and the T3 super 60 are way oversized for your application. You can pick up a 14b much cheaper, port it, and spend the money somewhere on your setup where it will make a difference!

 

ok, im not getting the ******* 14b turbo. don't wanna come off like a dick but i told you my turbo choices, i'm NOT getting the 14b......so like i had stated initially, does anyone have input on the 16G turbo

 

WHAT DO YOU WANT FOR "INPUT" you asked if it would flow enough, I said that yes it definately would. You should get it!

Happy?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SleepyEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Just because someone is running a turbo doesn't mean it's appropriate. </TD></TR></TABLE>

its appropriate! i was making like 188whp and 166ft lbs at around 5500 when my spark started blowing out and my **** bogging, got that fixed now so i gotta go back to the dyno next week and see what she hits, and that was at 9.5lbs!!! I am prolly gonna bump it to like 10.5!!!!

 

i know it'll flow enough, what im looking for is by what rpm's it starts to spool, when it hits full boost, and when (if ever) it chokes out

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by koreanwilcox &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have read a lot of responses like the one above, "the log mani will perform 10x better!!!" ... followed by absolutely no evidence

</TD></TR></TABLE>

the reason there is no evidence is BECAUSE THERE IS NO EVIDENCE. no one that has the knowledge/facilities gives a **** enough to test them back to back.

if you stop and think about it for a second you will notice some red flags.

what was its intended purpose? to be put on a small *** motor for an NA application.

ok, you want to dremmle it out. now your taking away from the structures integrity, and then you want to hang a 20lb snail on there.

these are just 2 of the many reasons IMO. there is no point in even arguing about the """""performance""""" between the two because 99% of the people wouldn’t even be able to follow, ASUMING THE INFO EXISTED.

i will say it again with this added.

TO ME the log is a 10x better product.

NO, i cant give you tested facts to back it up, i dont think anyone has that information. but what i am saying is that before you even get to the point of worrying about how well it performs, i would be turned off by the std already.

 

you don't necessarily need bench tests for airflow comparing the two manifolds, but from the butt dyno you can compare......im shocked that there's noone that can shed some light on this. i see tons of people starting up with junkyard turbo kits and moving up from there.

im probably gonna try the std. manifold a) for its price b) for it's longer runners.........if you look at it, it looks alike to the greddy/drag/revhard manifold. like i had stated earlier.....i think i'll benefit from it due to the smaller longer runners......at least that way the turbo will work more off airflow and with the smaller runners causing it to spool a "big" turbo somewhat quicker.

if i decide it's time to upgrade or something goes wrong with the std. i'll gladly move up to a log manifold. the money is not a problem but i can't see a log manifold being the be all end all of manifolds.............remember sometimes aftermarket bling blao $ parts don't exceed the quality/craftsmanship/efficiency of some OEM/custom parts

 

bump for the manifold

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by envision2teg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok, you want to dremmle it out. now your taking away from the structures integrity, and then you want to hang a 20lb snail on there.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

How much do you think the catalytic converter that was hanging on it before weighed? Also there is a bracket on the underside of the STD manis that bolts
to the block.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rioninja &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

How much do you think the catalytic converter that was hanging on it before weighed? Also there is a bracket on the underside of the STD manis that bolts
to the block. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i dont care what you hang on there, you are still taking away from the original designed structure and expect it to hold up. It may or it may not hold up, but there is a better chance it wont once you weaken its structure, thats my point.

thats not even the main issue, its just one of many.