Right now we're currently building a new hotrod class race car to replace our old POS car. We're switching over to alcohol for fuel and wondered what all you expereinced alcohol drivers had to say about the 2 fuels. I realize that most people are using Methanol (CH3OH)-- and looking at the hydrocarbon molecule, it looks like it burns cooler than methanol-- that's nicer than the alternitives, but the trouble is its very corrosive to metal and is a very strong base. It's refined from nautral gas.

The other option, ethanol (CH3CH2OH), will burn a little warmer and isn't as corrosive. It's made completely out of decomposed biomass.

We're going to be running 4x 1600cc injectors to begin, but do you guy have any tips for not blowing it up on the dyno the first 3 passes?

Right now it looks like we're going to go with ethanol.

Thanks

 

yepp i failed chem 122 and passed chem 121 cuz the profesor needed to fill up 122 so that she would have a class for that semester.. cough-have a job-cough.. this **** is hard as hell to comprehend correctly..

yeah and i would really like to see if this thread gets somewhere near the bottom of wich one is better.

Ed-

 

Contact Harv at Harv's Performance if you have any questions about Ethanol. That is what the whole Venom team ran on, and it worked great. The only bad part is that it smells like a Tequila factory when you are pouring it.

 

What city is that in so I can find the number with DexOnline...? That's pretty funny though, I want to see what it smells like now :-P

 

A great page to visit to find out about the different fuels available is http://www.bazellracefuels.com Personally I would suggest the Sunoco Alky Meth. It is approved by NHRA and NDRA. You will notice a huge difference in the response of the motor and also the temperature difference when running methanol. That reason alone is a huge advantage. People say that the corrosiveness is a disadvantage but proper techniques of completely draining methanol from the system and then running gas through the fuel system after ever race event will greatly reduce the risk of corrosion. Also, fuel pump seals and even injector seals can be changed to a different material made of neoprene or other composite materials. Remember to increase the size of the lines going to the fuel rail and the return line. The best advantage to the Sunoco Alky Meth is that you can see it burn a yellow flame if it catches on fire. Other methanols burn clear. Safety is an issue that we should all address and now there is a safe solution to running methanol. After witnessing the results of methanol, I would never switch back to gasoline ever again.

 

Talk to Harv. He is a god when it comes to the hondas. Ethanol is easy when the race is over put the car on the trailer and go home.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NFJohn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Contact Harv at Harv's Performance if you have any questions about Ethanol. That is what the whole Venom team ran on, and it worked great. The only bad part is that it smells like a Tequila factory when you are pouring it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you sure it wasnt one of the Venom team members breath? haha...jp

 

Why use Ethanol when you can achieve greater results by using Methanol? In this game we can not afford to give up performance. I think if the venom team felt it was necessary for them to change over to Methanol to take it to the next level, then they might have. Instead they were winning at such a consistent rate with their current set up that they didn't need to switch. Why change something if you are already winning? Saying that one fuel is better then the other based purely on the fact that a winning team is using a product is not a strong argument. It is the same reason why Bisi doesn't run Methanol. He doesn't need to. I am all for any product that achieves that greatest performance considering all other things constant. If you can make enough power with just gas to compete then stick to gas. If you change to Ethanol and find that you are winning races, then stick to it. Use whatever you feel comfortable with, but just understand what products actually can yield the greatest results. Just my 2 cents.

 

We use Ethanol in the Girl Poison car and have made good power!! It is much safer than meth both to transport and to handle. Here is a link with some more info.

http://www.battleoftheimports....shtml

 

Thanks everybody for your input-- I still think the owner/driver of the car is going to blow it up on the Dyno :-P

 

Harv's number is 562-907-7834. You might have to leave a message for him, but let him know you got the number from John@NuFormz. And for ParrisEngDyn, why not use Ethanol??? One of the fastest Alky funny cars runs Ethanol. He might have even won the championship with it, but I am not sure of that. Just know he is one of the fastest out there. Funny thing is, his car is painted like a corn cob, since that is what Ethanol is. Grain Alky. If they didn't put any gas in it, you could actually drink it after the end of the race. The stuff he uses I believe is 100% Ethanol, with no gas added.

 

Thanks again everyone for all your imput. You've been a great deal of help with the topic, and I'm sure Harv can help even more.

Yeah, that's typically what people run I've heard... there is something called E85, which is 85% Ethyl aclohol and 15% racing grade gasoline. I think Sunoco makes it or something like that. But from what I've read from the other couple of articles, Methanol has an Stoich. A/F ratio of about 4:1, and Ethanol is around 7:1-- which is close to 1/2 of gasoline, which makes things a tad easier.

Right now we have -8 AN lines from the fuel cell through the filter to the pump and to the rail, and the same on the return. Do you guys think that's a large enough line?

 

ethanol is not as corrosive as methanol. because its corn based.. and you can run the same pump you did for gas. methanol you have to change out your pump, lines, regulator or the diaprham, and much larger injectors.. hp increase is almost the same as methanol. alot of people used that before inlcuding venom.

 

NFJohn send me a pic of that car. I wanna see the corn cob car. I'm not too familiar with Ethanol besides the fact that it is not as corrosive etc. How about as far as keeping the engine cooler? I have seen a motor cool down relatively fast after a dyno pass when using methanol. How about ethanol? Any info would be appreciated too. Max I realize that changing a lot of parts is a huge factor when switching to methanol. Then again I think you of all people understand too how critical a few HP is in this all motor field. As far as turbo applications, what the heck save the money on the injectors, pumps and lines, and just turn up the boost one more pound

 

Here is a pic of the car from IHRA. I guess they have changed the paint scheme, but on the side, you can clearly see Ethanol, and there is a corn plant painted on the hood.http://www.ihra.com/gallery/album94/DSC_0618 Also, look at the butterflies, it says corn. I can't remember the guys name, but if anyone knows it, I'm sure they can find an older pic of the car with the corn cob scheme. Also, if you look carefully, it looks like he finished #2, so Ethanol can't be that bad. http://www.ohiocorn.org/thomas_about.htm Here is his site. Four time champ, sounds good to me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Quik Chris &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
We're going to be running 4x 1600cc injectors to begin, but do you guy have any tips for not blowing it up on the dyno the first 3 passes?
Thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>Don't even think about running methanol without 8 1600's. There is no way in the world you can get enough meth in the car with only 4. We found out the hard way.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't even think about running methanol without 8 1600's. There is no way in the world you can get enough meth in the car with only 4. We found out the hard way.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So thats the secret to makin my car fast eh? give my car some speed!... j/p

 

earl- What about ethanol? I'm thinking 6 might be a good idea, based upon the stoich A/F ratio of 7:1, Methanol is 4:1.

When we go through the dyno's later this month I'll post some data on temps, a/f ratios, HP, dyno sheets, etc...

I'll update this thread when we go through that, we're a couple weeks out right now. Our FAST system is out at FAST getting reprogramed right now, so as soon as we get that back, the car will be put on the dyno. Our target race is the June 12-13 NHRA Rocky Mountain nationals at Bandimere Speedway in Morrison CO. Who's coming out for that one?

 

I agree with earl........ you need some serious delievery to get the amount of metanol needed........ 8 injectors and a belt or cam driven (cough cough) fuel pump will get you there...... the big boys of the HR class run meth, so to be competetive you probably should too........ don't forget that with the proper tune, you could actually remove your cooling system....... burning enough meth will actually cool the car to the point where you don't need a radiator....... (this being only in a drag race envirnoment where the car is on for 5 to 10mins at the most)

 

check into ethanol, I believe you can run E98 in NHRA races. Team Ikon uses it aswell.

 

to connecticut for putting 10% ethanol on all of our pump gas

Ed-

 

methanol requires 2x the gas and ethanaol is 1 1/2 x the gas. ethanol is a nice easy way to make power. you don't always have to flush out the fuel after each race and don't need to change out the fuel pump or fuel lines. but it is recommended you change the oil after at least every other pass, being that the ethanol finds its way through the rings. it's a poor mans methanol set-up, but definitly works.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Quik Chris &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">earl- What about ethanol? I'm thinking 6 might be a good idea, based upon the stoich A/F ratio of 7:1, Methanol is 4:1.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hey Chris,

What happened to Sam's original plan of running 8 injectors?

 

Just run 8 Injectors, why be difficult..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by iiilgsrlll &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Hey Chris,

What happened to Sam's original plan of running 8 injectors? </TD></TR></TABLE>

He is basing a lot of the specs of his engine off what JJ (Olsen) (His new teammate) ran last year... I brought it up to him, but he's pretty set in what he wants to do...
He's even running my old JG Victory X manifold which would make it really easy to run 8, but he's still being stubborn. I guess Al from PAC Motorsports in town was running methanol and 8 1600cc injectors, and his duty cycle was at like 20%, and that car never hit anything lower than a 10.50 up here... so Sam sees those as 2 reasons to do it.

As it turned out the other day, JJ ordered him the universal V8 F.A.S.T Speedpro harness and everything was wired completely wrong, so he should have received the Honda 4cyl harness today and will probably dyno tonight. I'm going to head down there in a minute to check the car out and take some pictures for everyone on here--- I'll start it in a new thread and you can post the pictures on Importsports.net, I'm sure Sam will want them up.

Chris