yeah. i know.. i've been screwing around all over trying to find the right setup for me....

and really.. i've decided i want reliability.... all motor seems like a good way to ensure that.

for 3000 (including all expenses), im looking to do two things mainly. i want to go with a dohc vtec setup. i've spent time with d series and i want to move along.
1: i want to strip the **** out of my bay.


this, luckily is free, minus the good radiator (since the stock one wont work) and a tiny *** battery.

2: im looking for something that will give me *decent* power.

im not sure how important an lsd is for me off the bat... do you guys reccomend one?

a setup i was thinking of is a b16a2, 4-1 jdm header, ctr cams, and hondata gasket... with a regular intake.. i've heard they can put 160 to the wheels. sounds like a hell of a start to me...

im not sure if this is doable for 3000.. im not even entirely sure where to get a b16a2 (obd1, sir2) for a decent price..

i figure b16 is my best choice, but im open to suggestions.

so really.. i've decide on an all motor, what can you guys reccomend i spend my money on.

cliffnotes/questions:
-whats the best place to get a b16? i was looking at passwordjdm... not too bad.
-when people say "jdm 4-1 header" what brand are they talking?
-for 3000, how can i get the best bang for my buck.

and for anyone that is going to say search... trust me.. i sat here from 7pm til 12:52am reading and reading and reading. i learned ALOT, but nothing is rock solid... i just want to hear a definate answer on some of these questions, and hear some reccomendations.

 

1.6 L platform is not easy to make power on
I recommend you start with saving additional money for a JDM itr swap.

Buy camgears/header/hondata s100 & you will be happy.

Btw: Jdm 4-1 header is a JDM itr 98+ spec header produced by honda. Its not the best header for the $... I recommend something else such as a t1r, toda, comptech etc.. Read the great header test.

For $3k I would order a JDM ctr swap, save up even more & stroke it to 1.8L using a spoon or toda stroker kit.

Even better yet would be a Kseries swap :-)
250 whp all motor isnt too shabby.

 

a jdm itr swap will run me 4500 at best to get in and running... honestly, i dont want the downtime of saving $1500
a k20 swap... hell thats well over 5000.
a ctr is more feasable.. but they are still like $3500, and to get it all in and running.. thats at least $4000.

 

You can find a complete B16a2 swap for about $2300 shipping which will probably be about $2500. Then spend the rest of the $500 on CTR cams and Hondata Gasket and maybe a JDM 4-1 Header. Im pretty sure its going to be over 3g's but close.

 

best way to spend $3k for an all motor car?

...give me the money and you ride stock! ...haha just playing with you man.

IMO, the best bang for the buck under $3k. I would buy a complete B20 long block with a b16 tranny-$1200. Port n polish the head, get a aebs/skunk manifold,bore the throttle body to match the manifold-$800-$1000. Get a new clutch kit and a used dc header-$500-$600. All this under $3k and will spank that b16.

...but the choice is yours. Good luck

 

hmm..i would get a b16,replace all seals and gaskets,water pump,oil pump,timing belt and anything else you can...then get i/h/e and have fun.....

 

LS/Vtec is usually good bang the buck. like b16a, only more displacement. that would be my suggestion.

 

who's motor shot is that?..it looks like the iat sensor isnt hooked up and the fpr vacum hose is going somewhere,hehe...

 

If u wanted a little more power than the b16 and wanted to go under 3,000. You could always source a b16 head and tranny. ($1000) Then buy yourself an old ls bottem end. ($75) Then rebuild it however u want. (more research on your part) But u could get away with a relatevelly safe bottem end for about 1,500 bucks (im counting what it would cost to assemble, if u do it yourself it would be less) That would leave you at around 2,500 give or take.

Then u got $500 for some stuff like hondata, or a chipped p28 and a jdm dc-4-1 header.

you could do it for around 3,000 if u put the motor in yourself. You could do if for less than that if u built the motor too, instaed of paying a machine shop to do it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mtber &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Buy camgears/header/hondata s100 & you will be happy.


For $3k I would order a JDM ctr swap, save up even more & stroke it to 1.8L using a spoon or toda stroker kit.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

ok...i gotta say something...

buy camgears?!?!? WTF DUDE...cam gears are 99% WORTHLESS wiht a stock engine!! wow, so sad

and secondly...please tell me you didn't tell him to but somethign from Spoon or Toda?? please....
all those kits are, are balanced OE parts....that cost well over 2 times what you SHOULD pay. For that price he can just go out and buy an LS crank and use LS rods with PR3 pistons and have somethign better for less....so sad

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spaceman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hmm..i would get a b16,replace all seals and gaskets,water pump,oil pump,timing belt and anything else you can...then get i/h/e and have fun.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good advice. Make it reliable first.

I'm not sure that I would spend money tuning a b16 over choosing a stock b18c or lsvtec for a streetcar.

You may also want to consider looking at a b20 non-vtec with a gsr transmission... unless you have your heart set on vtec, I think you would be pleased with such a setup.

I would build a b16a, but not for the reasons you've listed here. A b16a has its own personality, and can be fun to drive, but it's probably not the best way to get what you want out of it.

 

Iat is hooked up. No fan, doesnt appear to be a vtec sol plug. My asumption is, like many, someone built the car, took a picture of it, and put it together the rest of the way.

I could be wrong. If so, id say the time to value ratio for rewiring the entire engine bay so the wires arent seen is absurd. Spend the time working at white castle and get some itb's or more mods. Unless you are lj garcia and building the car for hot import nights or some ricer ****.

Thats just my oppinion. Very nice car tho. Just not my thing i guess

 

Dude,

I am still a newbie myself, if newbie is defined as not knowing 1/10th of the smart people on HT.

My 2 cents is to get a B20. From what is sounds like, you aren't too worried about passing smog. The B20 is a real ground pounder bone stock. Get the B20, get a header, exhaust, and maybe an intake, and I think that's a good start. You can throw on a B16 VTEC head for not much more than that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jbell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> . . . a k20 swap... hell thats well over 5000. . . . </TD></TR></TABLE>


You could get a usdm K20A2 swap for $3000, 200hp + a 6 speed tranny STOCK!
All the new inovations comeing out i would not rule out a k20a2.
There's nothing more reliable than a stock honda motor!

 

yes, you can get a k20a2 for just around 3500, but there's alot more stuff you need to buy in order to have it running, such as Pnp harness, custom header, mount kit, fuel lines, jdm ecu... the list goes on. Ive done the calculation many times, and you'd better have a budget of 6000 before thinking about a usdm k20a2 swap.

When you guys are recommending stuff, keep in mind all the little things associated with the swap.

BTW, if I was in your shoes, I would take the b20z over the b16 any day. Sure it may not make as much peak, but if you layed the 2 dyno graphs over each other, you'll see why the b20 will likely come out on top in a race. Plus it'll be so much more comfortable to drive on the street.

 

H22a?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dynomax27 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">H22a?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea...H22A would be cool.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSRswapandslow. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

ok...i gotta say something...

buy camgears?!?!? WTF DUDE...cam gears are 99% WORTHLESS wiht a stock engine!! wow, so sad

and secondly...please tell me you didn't tell him to but somethign from Spoon or Toda?? please....
all those kits are, are balanced OE parts....that cost well over 2 times what you SHOULD pay. For that price he can just go out and buy an LS crank and use LS rods with PR3 pistons and have somethign better for less....so sad</TD></TR></TABLE>

LS crank & rods will work but the R/S ratio wouldnt be all that great for longevity.. Atleast thats what the numbers say.

So you are telling me balanced internals vs non balanced ls crank & rods... ls internals win? Ok buddie.

Camgears are not worthless what so ever, it all depends on your setup & your tuning methods. You can make a lot of midrange power using small adjustments in cam timing adjustments.

Price out it out for NIB parts:
Itr rods: $100 x 4
Itr headgasket: $70
Itr pistons: $180 on average
Itr rings: $100
Itr crank NIB: $600-700
Total: $1400 obo

Now lets see here.. a spoon stroker kit from inlinefour.com retails for $1200 which includes:
Kit consists of crankshaft, pistons w/ wristpins, piston rings, connecting rods and a 2ply. Spoon metal headgasket.

I personally would preffer the spoon balanced kit for $200 less then OEM parts NIB.

If you wanted to stroke a b16b to 1.8L the cheap way you could buy:
Used ls crank & rods $200-300
Jdm itr pistons & rings: $300
Arp rod bolts: $40
Machine work to open pistons 1mm on each side for ls rods & arp rod bolt installation: $100
Total cost: $700
Sure its cheaper but cheaper isnt always better.

Anyway you look at it I still left out the cost of bearings, seals etc.

b16b stroked to 1.8L w/ JDM p30 or ITR pistons is the way to go if you don't go kseries IMO.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mtber &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

LS crank & rods will work but the R/S ratio wouldnt be all that great for longevity.. Atleast thats what the numbers say.

So you are telling me balanced internals vs non balanced ls crank & rods... ls internals win? Ok buddie.

Camgears are not worthless what so ever, it all depends on your setup & your tuning methods. You can make a lot of midrange power using small adjustments in cam timing adjustments.

Price out it out for NIB parts:
Itr rods: $100 x 4
Itr headgasket: $70
Itr pistons: $180 on average
Itr rings: $100
Itr crank NIB: $600-700
Total: $1400 obo

Now lets see here.. a spoon stroker kit from inlinefour.com retails for $1200 which includes:
Kit consists of crankshaft, pistons w/ wristpins, piston rings, connecting rods and a 2ply. Spoon metal headgasket.

I personally would preffer the spoon balanced kit for $200 less then OEM parts NIB.

If you wanted to stroke a b16b to 1.8L the cheap way you could buy:
Used ls crank & rods $200-300
Jdm itr pistons & rings: $300
Arp rod bolts: $40
Machine work to open pistons 1mm on each side for ls rods & arp rod bolt installation: $100
Total cost: $700
Sure its cheaper but cheaper isnt always better.

Anyway you look at it I still left out the cost of bearings, seals etc.

b16b stroked to 1.8L w/ JDM p30 or ITR pistons is the way to go if you don't go kseries IMO.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

as good as this idea sounds... thats way over budget... and if i was going to do it down the line... why not just turbo?

 

good effort on the list...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jbell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

as good as this idea sounds... thats way over budget... and if i was going to do it down the line... why not just turbo? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Read the thread topic.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mtber &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Read the thread topic.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i know im just saying, for the money.. bang for the buck..

anyway... i think going b16, making it reliable.. and going with some good cams, a decent clutch, lsd, jdm header, and exhaust.. i'll be happy for some time.

 

You sound like you don't wanna be that fast. Just something with a little more kick and reliable....just go with a B16 (though if you can find a good deal and have the money....i do a stock GSR. You'll like the torque of a 1.8L much better than the 1.6.

And like someone else said, replace seals, oil/water pumps, timing belt, headgasket, etc.

CALL IT A DAY.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EdBoon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You sound like you don't wanna be that fast. Just something with a little more kick and reliable....just go with a B16 (though if you can find a good deal and have the money....i do a stock GSR. You'll like the torque of a 1.8L much better than the 1.6.

And like someone else said, replace seals, oil/water pumps, timing belt, headgasket, etc.

CALL IT A DAY.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

i want speed trust me, but i know i realisticly cant do it for 3000 without being unreliable (see: nitrous, d-series turbo)

also... i dont think its possible to swap in a gsr for 3000...

 

you again My block alone cost more than your entire setup

Id say Ls/Vtec.... cheapest, and most powerful for the buck...

ls block, ls rods (shot peened), ITR or PR3 pistons, oversized .20... stock vtec head, b16 prolly... around 300-400 bucks... ITR cams/intake manifold/JDM ITR header, stock exhaust.. or aftermarket...

ls shortblock800
b16 head 400
ITR cams 300
PR3 pistons 2-300 plus rings
ITR intake mani 230
All top and bottem end gasket, seals, head gaskets, timing belt, oil/water pump, ext.... that you will need. 440 (exact price cuz i bought them new)
Vtec or LS tranny, 5-800 bucks
plus 2 or 300 for a clutch flywheel setup.
plus axles plus mis. stuff you will need. 500

About 4K... but pretty much everything you'll need, minus some stuff

IF your that ******* cheap.... get OUT OF THE GAME!!!

if you only have 3K, get a b16 and some bolt ons... you can't afford anything else.