Originally Posted by ACCORDianate

Okay, I have searched thru this site for the answer I am looking for, and found one single thread on this, but it is not very descriptive.

This is for a 1993 Accord with the F22A1.

So I'm going to ask the following question:

How difficult is it to change out the cam seal, balance shaft seal, and cam seal? I spent about 2 hours tonight poking around the engine area of the car trying to figure out where crap comes off. I understand that I need to:

-take off the belts
-take off the crank pulley
-take off the top and bottom timing covers
-remove timing and balance shaft belts
-carefully remove seals
-sloob up the new seals and install
-replace timing and balance shaft belts
-replace timing covers
-replace belts

FYI, I'M sure you know this too, but just in case - there is some other preliminary stuff to remove or get out of the way first - like Alternator, PS pump, L side Engine mount, etc. I'm with you so far, though.

BUT:

1-Does the engine need to be at TDC to do this?

Personally, I would try to keep it always at TDC, and work in one area at a time, that way, you can get back to TDC if something goes wrong, by checking all the other timing marks. Remember, when your at TDC everything lines up on all the sprockets. One full turn and only some things line up, another full turn and your back to TDC. It takes two full 360 degree turns of the crank to complete one full engine firing cycle. I am told by techs that you don't have to worry about it if you know where it is, but non techs usually have problems figuring it out, so, the better practice is to stay on TDC all the time. Even if it turns away a little when you are wrestling with the belts, it's ok, just be sure to put it back on TDC, as soon as possible.

Btw, I would use the distributor rotor as a guide - for me this was easiest - I don't use the cam lobes, too easy for a non-tech to get fooled.

Also, check the vehicles timing before you start the job to make sure it is firing correctly (remember to find out which way the engine turns, though - my Accord is counter clockwise, but my Volvos are clockwise). That tells you which side of the belt to look on with the strobe light to check timing, which is usually an ATDC (After Top Dead Center), or a BTDC (Before Top Dead Center). That way you can be sure your timing is correct and then make a small adjustment if needed when you have the engine back together and running.

2-How the F are the belts loosened? I see the adjuster bolts and the retaining bolts for the alternator and ac compressor, but they don't move after loosening all the bolts; is there a way to get these loosened to be able to move to get the belts off?

There should be separate bolts that keep these parts in place. Loosening them will allow you to move the entire unit. So, you need to locate those bolts, first.

3-Is it necessary to get something to keep the engine from turning/rotating while taking off the crank pulley bolt?

Absolutely. Here is quick run down on that. Techs in shops have these impacts guns that hit the crank pulley bolt, while their holding the pulley, with such power and so fast that it loosens the bolt, and then they simply turn the crank pulley back to TDC, if it moved. Now most diy'ers do not have impact guns. At any rate, there are two other ways to proceed: Btw, do not do what Haynes suggest about putting a large screwdriver into the flywheel teeth. Don't risk damaging the flywheel teeth. It could stop your car from starting.

1. A company called Lisle Corporation sells a tool that you can use to hold your flywheel still while loosening the crank pulley bolt. It is part # 23800. Pep Boys might have it. Speed shops sell Lisle stuff. Stay away from the tool truck guys (they will only re-label it and sell for 60% over retail). My brother sells tools and I buy my stuff from him, but I think the board rules forbids my mentioning the business. Maybe if you sent me a private email.

Anyway, lets see, you may be able to order it online at http://www.lislecorp.com However, if I was going to use this tool, I would make sure that a friend was holding the flywheel for me with the tool, because it will be too hard for one person to have to pull hard on that crank nut (180 ft. lbs.), and also hold onto another second tool. You should also have about a 2 ft long breaker bar with a 1/2" or 3/4" drive socket, and your still going to have to pull very hard. Having never done a Honda, I'm not sure of the clearance for turning the crank nut. Since you will most likely be using a floor jack, your tool swing will be limited. Not sure if there is enough room above for a larger tool swing. So, having said that, I would use a 12 point socket (just make sure it is of a good brand and fairly new, and has the design where it will grip the sides of the nut to prevent slipping - a feature Snap-On designed for the space program in the 1960's, but everyone in the US uses it now, since Snap-on's patent expired). DO NOT use any China sockets or bargain basement stuff or real old style. I know about tools, I can say that much.

2. There is a special crank holding tool sold thru the parts bin for my 94 Accord. But I'm not sure about your 93 Accord. At any rate, if there is this will be easier to use if you have no helper. Personally, this is the tool I was going to buy, but only if I got the seal sprocket info I need, and you saw what happened to our questions about that!


4-Is it necessary to remove the engine mount to access the timing belt covers/timing belt?

I'm wondering the same thing. I did this once on another car and I wasn't told enough of what to do and I crushed the oil pan. The trick is to have about a 2" thick piece of wood by the length and width of the bottom of the oil pan, unless there is another spot to keep the engine up at. The reason for doing this is to take the weight off of the mount, so you can loosen the bolt/bracket, and still keep the engine in place, otherwise it would fall on that side. (AND, I'm not even goign to mention that, you better make 100% certain that your jack that is supporting the engine, is going to be able to do that for a long enough time, and also that no one doesnlt accidentally turn the jack handle, etc., etc. - god forbid!! Read between the lines!!!

Finally:

5- Would it be better to have the vehicle towed to a shop to have the seals replaced, (its not drivable (well it is drivable, but very risky), as it leaks about 1/2 quart/min from the timing cover) or should I undertake this in-depth repair? I have little experience in this field of car repair and I feel that I may be getting in way over my head.

That is a really severe leak. Does it leak when the engine is running or after it is shut off? PLEASE DO NOT START THE CAR JUST TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION. Is the water pump making a growling sound? I'm in a similar situation as this. But my car is at a shop, and my friend who runs the shop is busy and trying to talk me into doing the job, but since the water pump is leaking a good bit, I am hesitant to drive it home. All it takes is for the belt to break or slip and it can damage the engines valves, etc. I also do not have more than two full days to do the whole job.

Yes, quite frankly, from your questions I can see that is the case, and I think you should locate a competent independent repair shop, that will agree to either you supplying the Honda Belts and Seals, and water pump, or get that stuff for you and do the entire job. My friend wants $350-$400. Honda wants $700 - forget that.

There are many tricks and pitfalls to this job. I did one before and I had to study the procedure for eight months until I was confident enough to know that I knew all I needed to know. Took me two days to do it. Now (having the experience) If all I had to do was the pump and TB belt, that would be a piece of cake. I'd do yours along with mine if you lived close. The only thing I am struggling with is the seals and sprockets because I have no Helms manual.

Suggestions? Comments?..... Since its in my in-laws' garage on ramps, I need to get this done in a reasonable time frame, and it cannot be sitting there for more than a week.

Smartass comments and BS answers (such as 'have you tried a bigass hammer?', 'sell it and buy an Integra.' or 'why dont you pull the engine and put in a H22?') may as well be kept to yourself: I'm not about to beat the F outta the car, we don't have the money to plop in a different engine, and <U>we like the car.</U> We have no intentions of selling it.

Well, I have also been thru this too. Don't know why boards even tolerate people making comments like that, except that they would probably have to devote their full time to policing the board. It really doesn't help a beginner at all. And I'll tell you something else, it is almost never that a real pro tech would even say things like that. It is usually just troublemakers that know nothing themselves that say these things. Well, I see your from Texas. Guess I won't be able to do much more that post this.

In closing, having done a TB-Water Pump job on Volvos and knowing all the pitfalls and little do's and don'ts, from your questions I can tell you seem to be in over your head. Now, let me add this. It does not take a highly intelligent person to do this job, but this job is not about your intelligence, it is about having the exact detailed knowledge, and I can see there are many things you don't know enough about, YET! That's not to say you can't know it at a later point in time. Everyone has to start somewhere. So, maybe you can read up on the procedure and then maybe you can find a shop that will let you watch, at least part of the procedure. That would go along way towards your learning about what you need to do these jobs. It is worth learning because TB's are a part of maintenance on all cars these days. If you do decide to try the job, make sure you ask tons of questions and DO NOT proceed until you know 100% what the next step is.

With that being said:

Help!!!