Today while driving around, I noticed that my car feels really sluggish with normal street driving. Seems like I have to rev higher and harder to get the same acceleration that I used to previously. Right between 2k and 3k I think is where it's most noticeable. I also noticed that I'm getting crappy gas mileage all of a sudden. I started my trip meter at a full tank, and now I'm near half with only 125 miles. My exhaust also seems to have gotten louder. I guess the problem has been building up, but today it just seemed to get really bad. I just had a 60k tune-up (I'm actually at 56k right now) done, and the car was running great afterwards. I got new plugs, dizzy cap + rotor, had some injector cleaner treatment, new tranny and clutch fluid, fuel filter, and some other regular maintainance items.

Tomorrow I'm going to check:
-My exhaust piping and cat. A buddy is lending me his ITR cat, so I'm going to remove my piping and run open from the ITR cat to see if that makes a difference. It should bolt up to my GS-R right? Also, I wouldn't cause any problems doing this?

-Also checking spark plug gap. They were good last time I checked, idunno, maybe something went wrong.

-Putting my stock intake components back in since my K&N on my CAI is pretty dirty.

-Is there anything else I should look for? I'm not getting any CEL's, and the car starts up and idles fine. Could it be my plug wires? How do I know if they've gone bad? Also, would a dirty IACV affect performance?

 

it might partially be the intake filter due for a cleaning or replacement just like my CAI


change the oil and gearbox (assuming youre driving a standard) fluids while youre at it.

make sure the tirepressure is up to snuff

 

wow, 2nd thread today about this! ive had this problem since like 5 months ago and have been trying so hard to figure it out. i think im cracking down on it though.
i was experiencing a sudden loss of power/torque, gas mileage suffered and louder exhuast at numerous rpm's.
now since, ive checked exhuast for any leaks but were none. checked cam gears for slippage: nope. replaced cat convertor: nope again. So ive had these mods in my signature for quite a while and all this started happening a month after i put in the cams. i know ive been running rich for a while due to the cams so that caused me to think.
I think the lack of power is not just from running rich, but from the fuel saturating the spark plugs which i think are the problem. i recently noticed that when i really get on my car and rev it up to redline a few times in 3rd and forth gear, i actually get better gas mileage and i get all this torque back that i used to have, even below 2000 rpm. this power wears out after a while out if you dont do it every couple of days due to the plugs getting built up again.
so basicllay when you rev it out, it cleans off some of the build on yur plugs and thats what ive come to so far.
im waiting to get tuned and hopefully that will be the solution and ill change my plugs after that.
keep in touch and let me know how things turn out. go out and rev out yur car a lil bit and tell me if there is a difference.

 

Wow, that's strange. I'm running cams untuned as well, and have been since last January. I didn't change anything on my car, but for some reason it wasn't so hesitant today. I warmed it up like I did yesterday, and just drove it, everything seemed fine. I did rev it past 5k quite a few times last night though. I haven't when into VTEC all week since I've been just commuting to school and back. Maybe that was part of the problem. I still plan on examining my exhaust piping and putting my stock intake back in, hopefully it's something as simple as that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alfaaay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow, that's strange. I'm running cams untuned as well, and have been since last January. I didn't change anything on my car, but for some reason it wasn't so hesitant today. I warmed it up like I did yesterday, and just drove it, everything seemed fine. I did rev it past 5k quite a few times last night though. I haven't when into VTEC all week since I've been just commuting to school and back. Maybe that was part of the problem. I still plan on examining my exhaust piping and putting my stock intake back in, hopefully it's something as simple as that.</TD></TR></TABLE>
yes! exactly. i didnt drive in VTEC for months and it seemed like it was at an all time low. then once i revved the crap out of it for a day of wideband tuning (still not tuned though) it felt so torquy. we are probably running extra rich at partial throttle on the non-vtec lobes. the difference is very noticable. we are in the same boat here. check all yur stiff out and check yur plugs too to see how they look, i need to check mine too. lemme know after so we can keep in touch. youu are the 1st person ive ever come across with the same problem. we need to figure this sht out!

 

Hmmm... I thought the non-VTEC lobes were the same as stock lobes? If they aren't, I guess that would attribute to the problem. My cam gears are also both set at zero degrees, which isn't really the optimum position. I've also heard that fuel is usually leaned out more at low RPMS when the tuning occurs. Either way, I'll take a look at my piping hopefully this week and see if that's contributed any to the problem. I checked out my plugs, here's a crappy picture since my camera doesn't do macro so well:


don't mind my dirty laundry

To describe the plugs, the tips were all greyish in color, some traces of brown. However, on the inner tips (not shown), they were black. Also, around the base of the tips (as seen), there was quite a bit of black coloring (build up?).

 

the non-vtec lobes are different on my cams. which do you have? when i went to wideband tune, the reason nothing changed is because his equipment wasnt operating correctly so i still have my stock obd-2 ecu now instead of obd-1. and yur correct, it does need some leaning out.
from the pic and desription of yur plugs, they seem like they could use a change, but id do it after getting tuned so yur running perfect for the new plugs.thats what im gonna do. how old are the plugs anyway?
like i said , my theory is really based off of months of elimination and mechanic knowledge. it isnt in stone so let me know what you think and if you have any ideas or solututions. im gonna change my fuel filter this week cuz it needs it and see if anything changes.
oh and i can almost guarantee you its nothig wth the exhuast.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alfaaay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I started my trip meter at a full tank, and now I'm near half with only 125 miles.</TD></TR></TABLE>

uhhhh how is that bad gas mileage? If anything its good gas mileage.

 

I have the Toda A's, which are somewhat similar to Skunk2's. I'm not too sure about the non-VTEC lobes, since only specs are given for the VTEC lobes.

I haven't gotten any tuning done at all. I have an OBDI p72 with a mock-ITR map that I run from time to time. Some real tuning will come hopefully when I save up some cash.

Hmmm... kinda sucks about needing new plugs. I put these in when I did my tune-up ~1-2k miles ago, and they're the OEM Denso Platinums (things aren't cheap!). Hopefully they'll be koo. I have a set of coppers that weren't in for very long, might as well throw those back in I guess?

I'm not sure exactly what to think about the situation, but I think I eliminated a few of the possibilities when I did my early 60k tune-up. Brand new fuel filter (mine was dirty as fuq though, so if you think yours needs changing, do it), did the injector treatment (not the gas tank one, it was a mixture of gas and something my friend had at his work, went in through the fuel line to the fuel rail), cap and rotor, cleaned throttle body, changed oil, clutch fluid, and tranny fluid. Right now, your theory about revving the car up seems to have some logic behind it. I don't totally understand how that works, but it seems to have helped my car out.

Would plug wires have anything to do with this? I've got 56k on my '98 GS-R, so I'm not sure how they'd go bad already or how to examine them. Also, I'm pretty sure there are issues with my IACV (I was told that you know it's dirty if you can turn on your A/C and your idle changes), would that have an effect on anything?

 

I swear GSR's should be at 300 or so?
12 gal tank @ 25 a gallon = 300
Unless you cruise at 6000 rpms, you should achieve around that....but yah 250 isnt horrible...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 707_Eclipse &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

uhhhh how is that bad gas mileage? If anything its good gas mileage.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, it's not really bad, but it's less than I usually get. It usually takes 10 gallons to fill, and at half a tank I'm at 150+.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GotGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I swear GSR's should be at 300 or so?
12 gal tank @ 25 a gallon = 300
Unless you cruise at 6000 rpms, you should achieve around that....but yah 250 isnt horrible...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I can usually get 280-300 on ten gallons, that's why I think my fuel economy is getting messed up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JunIntegra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
youu are the 1st person ive ever come across with the same problem. we need to figure this sht out!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually.... I think I have this very same problem myself. My 97 gsr has near 60K and damn it, sometimes I just get frustrated at the apparent loss of power in my car. At the same time sometimes when I really get onto my car in the vtec cam it really kicks ***. Though sometimes my car just doesn't wanna be in those upper rpm's at all. I think you really only start noticin' when you have already driven the car enough to get it's feel. I don't know.....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alfaaay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Today while driving around, I noticed that my car feels really sluggish with normal street driving. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Not trying to be captian obvious here, but have you taken the increase in outside temperature and humidity into consideration?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrmonk &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Not trying to be captian obvious here, but have you taken the increase in outside temperature and humidity into consideration?</TD></TR></TABLE>

LoL "captain obvious" ... but I didn't consider the weather. We had a wave of relatively warm weather for the pacific northwest last week. The car was running good at this time. It was 75-80 ish when I was at the drag strip, and was trapping 92+ mph (don't ask for ETs, because they sucked). It may have been humid because it rained last Friday, then was decent on Saturday, but I'm not sure how severe of an effect humidity would have.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alfaaay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yeah, it's not really bad, but it's less than I usually get. It usually takes 10 gallons to fill, and at half a tank I'm at 150+.

I can usually get 280-300 on ten gallons, that's why I think my fuel economy is getting messed up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry im just trying to make sense of my 240 miles on a full tank of gas.... maybe its the way i drive.... hopefully.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bay_707 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Sorry im just trying to make sense of my 240 miles on a full tank of gas.... maybe its the way i drive.... hopefully. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually an integra is capable of way more than that, of course at maximum driving efficiency(not over revving the whole time). The range on this car has to be well over 300 miles on a full tank.

 

I had the same problem last summer. Sluggish acceleration, hesitation, came and went, terrible gas mileage numbers.

But I did pin it down finally. Try testing out the O2 sensor using the Helm's manual. My primary was testing out of spec, and changing it solved the problem.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RedK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I had the same problem last summer. Sluggish acceleration, hesitation, came and went, terrible gas mileage numbers.

But I did pin it down finally. Try testing out the O2 sensor using the Helm's manual. My primary was testing out of spec, and changing it solved the problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

How do you test out the O2 sensor (and which one?). I don't have a Helms yet . Aren't new O2 sensors pretty expensive?

 

It's a pretty drawn out procedure, maybe someone as it already typed up. Be ready to tap wires at the ecu with a multi-meter unless you have a OBD-2 diagnostics tool you can plug in the service connector. Your best bet would be to ask for photocopies of the 2 pages relating to it at the dealer.

Yeah, part was pretty expension, I paid 120$ for a jobber 4 wire (OBD-2).

 

what do you know, ive got 64000 on the tach. is it a coincidence we ar getting this @ 60k? i had bad gas mileage until i went for the wideband tune and opened up my car in 3rd and 4th about 8 times. all together i got 300 miles on 10.8 gallons i think...thats including the runs i did. so it is definately confirmed that there is a relation. i guess when yur running rich, you NEED to let it out every othe day to keep things clean and burn off the unburned fuel hanging around.
does anyone see where im getting at here? i think thats it

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JunIntegra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what do you know, ive got 64000 on the tach. is it a coincidence we ar getting this @ 60k? i had bad gas mileage until i went for the wideband tune and opened up my car in 3rd and 4th about 8 times. all together i got 300 miles on 10.8 gallons i think...thats including the runs i did. so it is definately confirmed that there is a relation. i guess when yur running rich, you NEED to let it out every othe day to keep things clean and burn off the unburned fuel hanging around.
does anyone see where im getting at here? i think thats it</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah I do agree, though my knowledge on car mechanics is average at best. It seems that once I rev my engine up and get the vtec engaged a couple times the problem seems do fade. It seems the harder I run the engine the better it responds.... of course I don't mean absolutely gunning it every chance I get, riding the redline, and intentionally punishing the engine will make run better. But it just seems that the more you rev the car the more the car responds to you....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JunIntegra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what do you know, ive got 64000 on the tach. is it a coincidence we ar getting this @ 60k? i had bad gas mileage until i went for the wideband tune and opened up my car in 3rd and 4th about 8 times. all together i got 300 miles on 10.8 gallons i think...thats including the runs i did. so it is definately confirmed that there is a relation. i guess when yur running rich, you NEED to let it out every othe day to keep things clean and burn off the unburned fuel hanging around.
does anyone see where im getting at here? i think thats it</TD></TR></TABLE>

I wish I could physically see this happening. I understand the logic behind it, but I just wish I could see it to confirm that it's really what's going on. In the meantime, I threw my copper plugs back in and a clean, stock intake system. I guess this is another sign that I need to have some tuning done.

 

I'm brining this back from the dead because there's a new twist in my story.

I am now 99.9% sure that the hesitation is Air Conditioning related somehow. Whenever I turn it on (Seattle has been surprisingly nice recently), my car gets horribly sluggish. I'm not sure how the A/C relates to other parts, but it causes my car to bog like mad. I was told that my IACV is dirty if my A/C changes my idle RPM when I turn it on... but I don't see how that'd affect performance.

 

Turning your A/C should affect your RPMS at idle. It should increase it slightly. Having the compressor on also creates increased parasitic drag on the engine and results in a slight loss in power. Nothing detrimental though.