The results were disappointing.
The baseline run is this setup:
Mugen intake
Hytech header+exhaust
Tuned with a Unichip (piggyback with fuel, timing and VTEC control)

Since that run a Hondata IM gasket and the RS Machines cams and valvetrain has been installed.



It was tuned with the Unichip.
The chipped ECU, I had didn't work so it still has the rev limiter at 8600 rpm. Clearly it should rev higher, but I never thought it would lose power between 6k and 7,3k rpm. The intake was advanced to +3 which improved the low end and midrange. VTEC is at 6000 rpm.

This is the air/fuel ratio. 5.5 is around 12,4:1 and 3 is around 13,4:1, so it runs pretty rich in the top end.



This dyno measures drivetrain loss, so the numbers are engine hp, not wheel hp. When the car only had the intake it dynoed at 180hp on this dyno. The setup with the stock cams had 203 hp.

I will probably switch to Hondata, to get a higher rev limit and the idle control, since the idle is low, and not that good.

Suggestions/Explanations?

 

wow you're telling me at 8000 rpms or above you are losing around 5500 horsepower?

that would mean for me i am at like -5340 horsepowers at 8k. I wonder if that means i go faster in reverse at above 8k rpm... *runs to car*

 

Save the english lesson for someone else Tom

 

Do you have the dynopaper messuered on the wheels?
Is this dyno a Rotortest or just on of the these....we call them i swedish (rullande landsväg)

 

I think it was 185whp or so, but the numbers are not the same as dynojet numbers. What do you mean by rotortest?

Oh, you are so funny Soup ****, but if you read it again, you just might realise that it is air/fuel ratio. After all, I did write "This is the air/fuel ratio." The numbers are in %CO values, and can be converted to air/fuel: http://www.perfectpower.com/Technical_info/afr.asp

 

can you post a dyno of before and after?

there could be other things happening before you blame the cams as losing power. Unless the only thing that was changed was the cams between one dyno run to the next dyno run, it might be something else in your motor that caused to lose power

 

The first picture is before and after.
I am not really "blaming", simply posting the results I got.
The cams did gain power in the other parts of the powerband. The changes were Hondata IM gasket and RS Cams and valvetrain.
I thought the gains would be better, so I simply posted this, to get some ideas on how to get more power. I just thought the results would be better, thats all.

 

I think this is a clear example of just how GOOD the stock ITR cams are...

I would definately invest in a tunable ecu, and consider switching back to the ITR cams as well if you don't see more significant gains.

 

I've never heard or RS machines cams. Could you link to their English site?

I'm no tuner but I wouldn't think that "revlimit" or "fuel cut" are the issues that hold your setup back any. There are plenty of people even here that have just dropped cams in and seen gains.

What do these cams or the company that makes them claim? Gains? Whatnot?

Do they suggest any other changes as per tuning or even raising compression?

How did you find or find out about them? Does anyone you know have them? Did they have good results? If so how or who tuned them?

Best of luck.

 

RSMachines.com been around for a while.. they are in Socal... there were the one built bisi's crx I remember that car when it was still a daily driver

 

http://www.rsmachines.com/ - on H-T as `RS Machines'

Perhaps the cams you have need more compression before they start making decent gains over stock cams? I think Hondata will help but won't provide big gains in HP.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mpd076 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">http://www.rsmachines.com/ - on H-T as `RS Machines'

Perhaps the cams you have need more compression before they start making decent gains over stock cams? I think Hondata will help but won't provide big gains in HP.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Perhaps, but still, Euro-R's have 11,1:1 CR, but a higher rev limit, would be better. I am sure the RS cams would be better, if it could rev to around 9.3k rpm. I am certainly curious to see if I can't get some more power out of these cams.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Save the english lesson for someone else Tom</TD></TR></TABLE>

how about the we todd lesson? I really dont know how to read that chart

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Soup **** &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

how about the we todd lesson? I really dont know how to read that chart

</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is obviously the a/f chart, as explained:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DanishR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This is the air/fuel ratio. 5.5 is around 12,4:1 and 3 is around 13,4:1, so it runs pretty rich in the top end.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

sheesh

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dr Pooface &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That is obviously the a/f chart, as explained:

sheesh</TD></TR></TABLE>

oooh ...i should read better next time

 

Why not contact John @ RS yourself.
(310) 328-5514

Then get back to us and let us know what he said.

Or better yet IM him on this board at RSMACHINES and get him involved in the discussion.

 

wHello everyone....It seems as if there is other problems going on with the motor...I would suggest you investing in some sort of EMS or VAFC to tune this vehicle..... If you need help give us a call at the shop....310-328-5514 ask for Jon....


Also just to let everyone know ...we have been around since the begining of the import scene....But we have always been what the racers call " The best Kept secret in the import scene"

 

I'll get it tuned with Hondata, and hopefully get some better results.
Thanks.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Soup **** &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

oooh ...i should read better next time </TD></TR></TABLE>

everyone makes mistakes...make sure you don't flame other ppl next time cause ppl choose not to flame you for your stupidity

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Type-Rare#1248 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">everyone makes mistakes...make sure you don't flame other ppl next time cause ppl choose not to flame you for your stupidity</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was confused as well.

I thought the first dyno chart was just a dyno with multiple runs done during the day. not rs vs itr cams

to the poster, keep in mind that the itr comes tuned from the factory with itr cams. they spend alot of time tuning the ecu.

when you change it, you also need to change the fuel and timing

it does suck that you lost power, and now you have to spend more money to get power up top again. but thats how modifying an engine goes.

I do think its pretty good all the power in the midrange you picked up.

 

Danish R:

I would try the hondata first rather than the vafc....I am using the RS cams and they made great power for the setup that I have ( GSR motor, JDM ITR pistons, full ported/polished head, 11:4:1 CR, Skunk2 IM, 440cc injectors, hondata, RS cams + valve train, JG Edelbrock header w/ 2.5" collector, 2.5" mandrel exhaust, CAI ---- on a dynapak 208.5 whp 147ft/lbs tq @ 8350rpms...)

I have noticed when comparing my setup to others...that these cams seem to like higher compression and if I were to increase my CR than I may see alot more gains. At any rate, I would start with the hondata first where you have alot more adjustability when tuning the air/fuel/ignition.

Hope this helps....

 

I'll try to be more clear next time.
Just to sum up.
It was tuned with the Unichip, so fuel and timing has been adjusted on both runs.
The run that goes to 203 hp is Mugen intake, Hytech header+exhaust

The run that goes to 208 hp also has RS cams and Hondata IM gasket. On this run cam gears were also adjusted.

I was suprised that there were gains that low in the powerband. Perhaps the gains in this area came from adjusting the cam gears rather than the cams?

I'll post some results when I get it tuned with Hondata.

 

Danish R:

I would try the hondata first rather than the vafc....I am using the RS cams and they made great power for the setup that I have ( GSR motor, JDM ITR pistons, full ported/polished head, 11:4:1 CR, Skunk2 IM, 440cc injectors, hondata, RS cams + valve train, JG Edelbrock header w/ 2.5" collector, 2.5" mandrel exhaust, CAI ---- on a dynapak 208.5 whp 147ft/lbs tq @ 8350rpms...)

I have noticed when comparing my setup to others...that these cams seem to like higher compression and if I were to increase my CR than I may see alot more gains. At any rate, I would start with the hondata first where you have alot more adjustability when tuning the air/fuel/ignition.

Hope this helps....

 

I had it tuned with Hondata. The red line is the Unichip setup and the Blue is Hondata with 9300 rpm limit. The cam gears are not in the same position, so this is not a Hondata VS Unichip (piggyback) comparison.
Still I expected more than a 5-8 hp gain from the RS Machines cams, but at least it is better with the higher rev limit.


Any comments?

 

I don't know spec's of RS Machine cams, but if they are making power beyond peak of your stock cams, they probably would also like a higher Compression Ratio. Like our B18c7(11:1) with Toda B's, they work OK but with a higher CR(12~:1) you get worthwhile gains.