So this week I replaced all of the rear suspension bushings in the CRX. When I bolted the compensator (toe-adjustment) arm back in I just bolted it in a "relaxed" position. Since there was a pretty big difference between the location of each compensator arm I thought to myself "yup, the toe is going to be off" but it was too close to eyeball at the wheels. So today I set up a DIY alignment rack similar to what many HT'ers have used. Here is a pic of the setup:





When "squaring" the box, I took my time and spend a good 30 minutes going back and forth until I had the distances perfect (within the thickness of the fishing line). The front/rear track of the car appeared to be different and I verified this according to the shop manual. So the distance from each front hub to the line is exactly the same, and the distance from each rear hub to the line is also exactly the same, although the fronts are different than the rears because of the track difference. With me so far?

So then I go to measure the front toe (which shouldn't have changed since I didn't mess with the front) and I have exactly (again, within the thickness of the line) 1/8" total toe out. So far so good. I was ready for some serious excitement when I got to the rears. However, in spite of repeated measurements, BOTH of the rear wheels were 100% straight. There was literally no difference in measurement between the front wheel lip and the rear, on either side!

So my question is: Did I get extremely lucky, or have I made a systematic error that set me up to get these results? Experience has told me that if you get strangely perfect results in something it's usually your own fault. The fact that I could get good "squaring" of the box to within the thickness of the line tells me that my distances are equal between the lines where they lay over the cross bar. I rolled the car back and forth before setting up the "rack" to work out any bind (even though I forgot to put something under the tires for the adjustments I never ended up making ). What gives?

 

Quick, cut the head off a chicken, swirl it above your head and pray to the alignment gods. And don't bother buying lottery tickets anymore, you just used up all your luck for this year.

Wish my string alignments went that easy.....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MightyMouseTech &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Quick, cut the head off a chicken, swirl it above your head and pray to the alignment gods. And don't bother buying lottery tickets anymore, you just used up all your luck for this year.

Wish my string alignments went that easy.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, that's kind of what I was thinking, but I'm still a little guarded. Is there any way this could have happened and not been correct?

-travis, who was hoping to fund '04 with lottery tickets

 

I apologize if this question seems trivial, but what points do you take measurements from? From the back of the wheel to the line, and from the front of the wheel to the line, and take the difference? Also, does the line have to be exactly parallel to the floor when taking measurements?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 89STS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I apologize if this question seems trivial, but what points do you take measurements from? From the back of the wheel to the line, and from the front of the wheel to the line, and take the difference? Also, does the line have to be exactly parallel to the floor when taking measurements?</TD></TR></TABLE>

There's a pretty specific procedure for doing this alignment and there's plenty of room to screw it up. However, when you screw it up, you usually find that you can't square the box or that you can't get anything aligned side to side.

If you're interested in the procedure, I found this link very helpful from my searches: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=267237

 

Wow, great post! Thanks!

 

Do you guys think something like this would be more accurate/easy to use?

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/long18.htm

I know its alot more expensive than the 'string rack' but if it saves time... i've used these in the past for most of my alignments (my dad has one) and its pretty easy to use.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do you guys think something like this would be more accurate/easy to use?

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/long18.htm

I know its alot more expensive than the 'string rack' but if it saves time... i've used these in the past for most of my alignments (my dad has one) and its pretty easy to use.</TD></TR></TABLE>

They work very well, using the toe gauge and a camber/caster gauge makes life very easy (and quick) at the track. I once had to do an alignment on a 510 at the track before the start of one session, which gave me all of 12 minutes to do it. I was able to do it with time to spare thanks to the tools.

 

I see one possible problem with your setup, and it would be easily solved. if i missed wher you mentioned you did this my bad...

You say you measured the distance from each front hub and they were the same
you then measured the distance from each rear hub and they were the same.

this does not guarantee that your lines were parralel to each other, just that they were equidistant to the car at two points, you still could have had a trapezoid instead of a rectangle.

the solution to this problem is easy - measure the total width of the lines in front of, and behind the car, if these distances are the same then you have a perfect rectangle that is paralel to the car - given your chassis is straight.

again, if you accounted for that in some way already, good job, sounds like you got real lucky, otherwise i woudl suggest measuring one more time jsut for good measure, your toe is certainly even side to side, but not neccisarily 0.

Good luck!

 

At a recent event, I saw a crx guy doing his toe in a new way with strings, right there in the pits.

First, he had a digital level attached to the steering wheel so he could level it off.

Then he used strings, but instead of connecting to metal piping and stands, the strings were clipped on to the inner fenders, so they actually touched the edges of the (fat) tires in two places on each wheel....running along the centers of the wheels.

If all the wheels were straight and the steering was dead on... seemed to be good enough for their track-only car... but maybe not accurate enough for a daily driver.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Safir &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I see one possible problem with your setup, and it would be easily solved. if i missed wher you mentioned you did this my bad...

You say you measured the distance from each front hub and they were the same
you then measured the distance from each rear hub and they were the same.

this does not guarantee that your lines were parralel to each other, just that they were equidistant to the car at two points, you still could have had a trapezoid instead of a rectangle.

the solution to this problem is easy - measure the total width of the lines in front of, and behind the car, if these distances are the same then you have a perfect rectangle that is paralel to the car - given your chassis is straight.

again, if you accounted for that in some way already, good job, sounds like you got real lucky, otherwise i woudl suggest measuring one more time jsut for good measure, your toe is certainly even side to side, but not neccisarily 0.

Good luck!</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are 100% correct. I did my best to avoid this error by measuring the length of the two pipes (equal, within 1/32") and then I used the fine pipe thread as my "ridge" to hold the string. This would allow for adjustments of the two strings in string-width incraments and I believe I got them perfectly spaced on each bar.

 

I find the jack stand method is somewhat primitive (quick and easy though) and has one severe limitation. It is very easy to bump it out of alignment and most difficult to move the car to release the tension in the tires if you are making adjustments. You can change camber and toe and measure. Then move the car and measure again and you will get a different result. Plus you have to re-zero the jack stands if they got in the way. The strings should be attached to the car, such that you can roll the car back and forth without the risk of bumping the stands. This is the way I did it, and it is virtually identical to the method I saw a top formula team using.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=597192

I will be improving my setup soon and I will post the method.

 

If you dont use the floor too hard.. My Garage has 100 Snapped chalk lines. Makes places jackstands a bit easier! Only problem is you have to be careful when moving around it.

 

Sorry to bring this post back from the dead, but one question...

Prior to setting the front toe, the steering wheel is in the straight-ahead position. After setting the toe, let's say the steering wheel is no longer in the straight-ahead position, but off to the side. If your toe has already been set, is it bad karma to take off the steering wheel, and reposition it so that it is in the straight-ahead position?

 

Even though the steering wheel is in the straight-ahead position now, the steering is a bit off center. The number of turns from center to lock, in each direction, is about 1/8 turn off. Is this enough to cause a problem?

What's the best way to correct this? Loosen the steering wheel again, and center the rack by turning the wheel lock to lock, then reinstall the wheel? This would result in me having to adjsut the inner tie rod ends correct?

After that is all done, no doubt I'll have to reset my front toe...

 

To verify my string technique, I came straight from a professional alignment rack and checked the car with the strings and el' cheapo camber gauge. I came up with the same numbers, so the string box is accurate as long as you keep the box square, and car square in the box. (I re-check it frequently while setting the toe.)

In order to keep the steering wheel centered, keep the wheel pointed straight and adjust the tie rods accordingly. You can even secure the wheel in the center position with 2 straps so that it stays centered while you are adjusting the toe links.

Travis, Did you use "Energy Suspension" bushings?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Track rat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

In order to keep the steering wheel centered, keep the wheel pointed straight and adjust the tie rods accordingly. You can even secure the wheel in the center position with 2 straps so that it stays centered while you are adjusting the toe links.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Would I have to remove the wheel and center the rack lock to lock, then reinstall the wheel? After doing this, to center the wheel back up, I would have to adjust the 'inner' tie rod ends, correct?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by STSDA3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Would I have to remove the wheel and center the rack lock to lock, then reinstall the wheel? After doing this, to center the wheel back up, I would have to adjust the 'inner' tie rod ends, correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you think your rack is THAT far off center, yes; after doing what you describe above, you wouldn't have to do it every time. From then on, just center the wheel, strap it adjust the tie rods.

 

Not that far off, between 1/8 - 1/4 turn off.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Track rat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Travis, Did you use "Energy Suspension" bushings?</TD></TR></TABLE>

A couple. I used Mugen trailing arm bushings, SBMS offset bushings in the rear/outer UCA, ES sway bar bushings, and Prothane everywhere else.

 

The rear toe changes with hieght / camber....its a fully "eccentric" system. I believe this allows the outside wheel to toe out in a turn...sounds useful

I've found on the EP3 the rear toe can have a big impact on mid-exit rotation. I was at first running with a teeny-tiny bit of rear toe-in for stability, but I recently changed the rear "rake" to .25 inch higher, -.5deg camber, and absolute zero toe.

This increased my mid and exit turn performance, without making my turn-in too "darty" the way front toe adjustments could. Im guessing a little toe out in the rear could lend to even more roatation, especially if the inside tire lifts.

As for the DIY rack, I dont know if your setup would work but Im curious to find out. Good Luck.

 

looks good, nice diy

 

i'm contemplating attempting to fix my toe by myself. i read a link on here somewhere using a plumb bob in the center of the tire. marking a dot on the floor in the front of the tire and in the rear. measure across from lr to rr and the differnce in the measurements is what your toe measurement is.

my only question is what happens if your rears are a parallelagram like this \ \, or like this \ l ?
couldn't one side be better than the other? how do you know which wheel to adjust?

i hope this makes sense, if someone can find the link that would help. it was a guy with a cobra mustang i believe who wrote it up(it was from another forum somewhere).

advice, or better methods?

thanx

 

up.
anyone, have an answer to last question? ^^^^^^

thanx

 

No, but I thought I'd mention that life is a lot easier if you make up some slip plates instead of making an adjustment and then rolling the car and checking it again. Or even attaching the rig to the car, which in of itself, sounds like a PITA. Actually, I don't see how you can even make an adjustment without slip plates unless the wheels are off the ground.