Alright i have decided to go all motor on my hatch, ive always wanted to see what a single cam can do, here is what i am thinking as of right now, im waiting for tax return to build but this is what i am thinking.

1990 d16a6
bored .50 over
P29 pistons
stock d16a6 rods/bearings
knife edged and micropolished crank
fully blue printed and balanced
Cryo treatment of all bearings, rods, pistons
chromoly rings
d16y8 headgasket
(dont know what kind of compression this will give me, anybody want to help me out on that?)

as for the head
mild port and polish
titanium valve springs and retainers
exospeed race a6 cam (272 duration 400 lift on intake and exhaust)
arp head bolts
full cryo treatment of all springs, retainers, cam, rocker arm assembly

adjustable cam gear
FPR
Ported and polished intake manifold to match the head, along with bigger throttle body

4-2-1 header
cold air intake for daily driving and racing stack for race days.

This car is going to be a daily driver/ weekend warrior race car anybody that has seen it can verify how stripped it is.

Im shooting for a 150whp mark on this motor, i just want something that can hold its own with b-series motors and the like, plus it will be a road race car once more funds become available.

Let me know what you guys think, if i missed anything, anything that can be changed so on and so forth.


I AM NOT GOING B-SERIES SO PLEASE DO NOT BRING THIS ISSUE UP, I DO NOT WANT THIS TO TURN INTO ANOTHER D VS B SERIES ISSUE. THANKS!

 

A6 Block and HeadC/R about 10.2 I'm guessing depending on if the head and block have been milled.
150 you're on the right track, need some P&P work talk to Wil @ Exospeed.com

 

ya i have a cam from wil, and its working wonders right now untuned i am going to mill the head also, i want to get around 11.1:1 compression, that would still let me run pump gas.

 

Nice! Keep us updated!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by matt j &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1990 d16a6
bored .50 over
P29 pistons
stock d16a6 rods/bearings
knife edged and micropolished crank
fully blue printed and balanced
Cryo treatment of all bearings, rods, pistons
chromoly rings
d16y8 headgasket
(dont know what kind of compression this will give me, anybody want to help me out on that?) </TD></TR></TABLE>

d16 block, P29 pistons, 3-layer y8 HG, a6 head no mill ~ 11.08:1
d16 block, P29 pistons, 3-layer y8 HG, a6 head 0.010 mill ~ 11.38:1
d16 block, P29 pistons, 3-layer y8 HG, a6 head 0.020 mill ~ 11.69:1
d16 block, P29 pistons, 2-layer y8 HG, a6 head 0.010 mill ~ 11.75:1

 

I think a .050 over bore is ast the reccomended specs for a D series..... I think

 

sounds good man, but i would only overbore .025 if i were you, just to be safe. you also might wanna think about shotpeening the rods and getting arp rod bolts, that would keep everything together no matter what you did to it (within reason of course)

 

DISCLAIMER: i have no usefull info to answer your question but this is HT so i will post anyway. actually i have a little info.

boring .50mm over is perfectly safe. i too am building a killer D and the machinist i talked to says that .50 is pretty standard for a rebuild. i am not going as wild as you because money seems to keep dissappearing from my bank account but it should be almost as fast. i dont know where the 619 is (ive got hoes hehe) but if your near the bay you should give amaral in fremont a call. here is my setup just for kicks

d16z6
bored .50mm over
mystery cam that came with my z6 head
old, stock, worn top end until i can get some more money
rebuilt shortblock to oem spec.
maybe a blockguard?
airmass header
ebay intake
this belt driven intake manifold gizmo that came with a boost gauge. (hehe)

all in a semi-sleeper sedan. if youre near the bay we should meet up and shut down some B series.

 

i actually live in san diego, but am thinking for my next vacation going up to the bay area. Ya i know a few numerous people that have done .50 over on the block with no issues. I shouldnt need to worry about shot peening the rods as with a cryo treatment it forms stronger bonds in the molecules of the metal and reduces/eliminates all weak spots in the rods. (i have seen a stock dohc zc take 26+ pounds of boost with this done and when we pulled the motor apart everything was in perfect order, nothing bent or broken)

But ya this should be one hell of a screamer, i was thinking about using the d15b2 crank, as for the shorter stroke but unsure as of right now.

 

Dude just go B series. SOHC sucks.

J/K

I have a very similiar set-up to the one you listed as far as pistons goes. My crank and head are stock though, as is my cam for now.

A few questions though:

Why cryo treat the bearings? I think that's a bad idea. I would not want to harden the bearings themselves in fear of beating the crank journals, etc.

Why titanium retainers? They wear a lot quicker than stock and need replacing every 20K miles or so. Not worth it at all IMO unless you like pulling the head every 20k miles. Ti retainers are indeed a wear item.

I run an 11:1CR D16A6 with P29 slugs, Z6/Y8 head gasket, and no mill on the head nor block. I run it on 93 octane pump gas with the timing set at 20 degrees advanced and i get no pinging at all.

Here's a few shots of my block, etc. for inspiration:







I think you'll enjoy the ride after it's done. I love mine and the only mods i've got other than the higher CR is an old used DC 4-2-1 header, a custom 2.25'' exhaust and quiet muffler, and no resonator on my airbox and the car pulls hard. I'd estimate a 15.5 or so on streets in my pig assed 2150lb. or so 90 hatch.

...and I've yet to do the built head/cam combo I have lined up.

 

watch ur compression
with such a wild cam with big lift u might wanna clay the pistons to make sure u dont bent valves

 

BTW:

If you have any specific Q's regarding the build ask them here.

Do you know how to read the codes on the block and the crank to size the bearings?

Are you buying O.E bearings, etc?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by USDM 4G VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">watch ur compression
with such a wild cam with big lift u might wanna clay the pistons to make sure u dont bent valves</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've asked Wil from Exospeed about this issue and he said that the P29/D16A6 combo with no mill will accept a pretty wild-*** cam of theirs.

You begin to run into problems if you try to run P29s in the D16Z6/VTEC Zc because the valve reliefs don't match on the P29 slugs in ragrds to the VTEC valves.

 

Ya i was actually looking around and hearing that the Ti retainers cause an inadimate amount of wear in very short time. As for cryoing the bearings, i have seen a few motors that run with them treated and they are in perfect order, the crank journals were still looking great. I am going to be using honda bearings in the motor, since this is pretty much going to be a stock honda internal motor . I am thinking of just doing a port and polish on the head with a three angle valve job, but i am still looking over some head specs to see what i want to do

 

I'm honestly not sure about the P29's in a D16A6 w/y8 HG giving you 11.1. I spoke to some engine builders and they claim the combo should be in the 10's. Just by comparing the pistons (Pm3 and P29) side by side don't see how they can give you C/R in the 11's. Especially with the A6 head's bigger combustion chamber. Another reason I doubt this is when I look at an actual 11.0 aftermarket piston for the A6-Dome WAY bigger than the P29.

Anywho, the combo is a winner.
Did u pick the P29's up used or new?

PS who's ZC @ 25lbs were u referring to? Liam?

 

i am going to be going to acura to pick up the P29s, and the zc i am referring to is a buddy of mine, he isnt on these boards, he has since put the car up for sale and bought a 93TT RX7.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HumanResource &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm honestly not sure about the P29's in a D16A6 w/y8 HG giving you 11.1. I spoke to some engine builders and they claim the combo should be in the 10's. Just by comparing the pistons (Pm3 and P29) side by side don't see how they can give you C/R in the 11's. Especially with the A6 head's bigger combustion chamber. Another reason I doubt this is when I look at an actual 11.0 aftermarket piston for the A6-Dome WAY bigger than the P29.

Anywho, the combo is a winner.
Did u pick the P29's up used or new?

PS who's ZC @ 25lbs were u referring to? Liam?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why is it that every compression calculator I've ever punched the data into has given me 11:1CR for P29 in an otherwise stock D16A6 when using the metal head gasket?

 

ok so what would i be running for compression then? would it be 10.1:1 or 11.1:1?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by matt j &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok so what would i be running for compression then? would it be 10.1:1 or 11.1:1?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Do the math yourself.

Use this for the specs, and remember that the piston-deck clearance number value should be for the PISTON ITSELF.

http://www.muller.net/sonny/cr...t.gif

Punch it into this:

http://www.c-speedracing.com/h...c.php

See what I mean?

 

well i checked it out and when i punched everything in it gave me a 12.2:1 compression ratio, im even more confused now.

 

Use the following values to get the projected CR:

Bore: 75 (add in whatever over bore)
Stroke: 90
Head gasket thickness: .037 (taken from 92-00 VTEC metal gasket)
Piston-to-deck clearance: .040 (taken from 1989 D16A1)
Dome/dish volume: +7.2 (taken from 88-89 Integra P29 pistons)
Combustion chamber volume: 38 (taken from D16A6)

That will give you right at 11:1CR.

To figure in any head milling subtract the amount of the mill from the head gasket thickness value.

Example: if you go with a "20 off" mill simply input .037-.020 to get .017 for the value.

 

well the way it looks is i will be somewhere in the 11:1 compression range, which is exactly where i want to be thanks B18 for the help!

 

i dont think anyone has mentioned it yet but you cannot use the 1.5 liter crank in the 1.6 liter block. the journals are bigger for the 1.6 55mmVS65mm

 

cool thanks man, thats what i needed to know.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Use the following values to get the projected CR:

Bore: 75 (add in whatever over bore)
Stroke: 90
Head gasket thickness: .037 (taken from 92-00 VTEC metal gasket)
Piston-to-deck clearance: .020 (taken from D16A6)
Dome/dish volume: +7.2 (taken from 88-89 Integra P29 pistons)
Combustion chamber volume: 38 (taken from D16A6)

That will give you right at 11:1CR.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Piston-to-deck clearance: .020 (taken from D16A6) - this is wrong...
That will give you right at 11:1CR - but somehow this is right...
if you use 0.020 p-to-d you end up with ~11.7:1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">piston-deck clearance number value should be for the ENGINE ITSELF, not the pistons being used</TD></TR></TABLE>

as far as i know the piston to deck clearance will go with the piston as long as staying in the d16 block. switching pistons from d15 to d16(or visa versa) will make you have to calculate the piston-to-deck clearance.

for example...take a PM6(from a d16 with 212mm deck height) and put it into a d16z6(another d16 with 212mm deck height). the piston to deck height would be 0.020" not 0.000". since both engines have the same deck height, stroke, rod length........blah, blah, blah...heres an example

use this formula: Deck Height - Compression Height - Rod Length - Stroke/2 = Piston Deck Clearance

deck height for d16 - 212mm
compression height for PM6 - 29.5mm
compression height for P28 - 30.0mm
compression height for P29 - 29.0mm
rod length for d16 - 137mm
stroke for d16 - 90mm

say we put each piston into a d16a6 block(which will give the same results as a d16y8, d16z6...any d16 from 88-00)

using the above formula gives:
PM6 in D16- 212mm - 29.5mm - 137mm - 90mm/2 = 0.5mm = 0.019685" ~0.020" correct
P28 in D16- 212mm - 30.0mm - 137mm - 90mm/2 = 0.0mm = 0" correct
P29 in D16- 212mm - 29.0mm - 137mm - 90mm/2 = 1.0mm = 0.039370" ~0.040" correct

here is the d-series compression calculator:
http://www.knology.net/~jediklc/D.htm

i have my own excel spreadsheet compression calculator that i made and it works exactly the same as the one above.

hopefully this makes sence!