I posted the following on a private email list, but figured that it can help people here also. Many of us are getting into other cars and some of us are thinking of RWD cars like G35, S2000, E30 or E36 or E46 BMW's, Miata's, MR-2, 350Z, RX-7, etc. Below are my comments after living with my "new" used S2000:


I have been living with the S2000 for about a week now. I have the following comments:

1. The car is comfortable. I drove about 1000 miles in three days. I went down to Virginia Beach and then to Washington, DC and then back home (Monday to Wednesday of this past week). It is comfortable but very stiff. A surprisingly good touring car.

2. The more torque than the ITR is definitely noticeable. I left the car in 6th gear and was able to pass comfortably. The six speed tranny got confusing only once. I was cruising, radio up loud, wasn't thinking and trying to pass at the same time (bad combination). I think I shifted from 6th to 2nd !!! As soon as I heard the engine and saw RED on the tach, I immediately pushed the clutch in and had no problems...I learned a lesson...pay attention(see#3 below)!!!

3. RWD needs your constant attention when driving spirited. In front wheel drive, when we shift from 1st to 2nd, at redline, the tires will chirp or spin due to a momentary loss of traction. In RWD, this can be dangerous. When you loose traction the back has a tendency to sidestep. This is still nerve wracking. At this time I still avoid shifting at redline in the cold weather.

4. Related to #3 above. If I took this car to a track, I would be much slower than if I was driving my ITR because the learning curve is so much longer. You really cannot alter your speed at all when cornering or at least it feels like you cannot. Yes, it is true that in the ITR, you can get owned by lift off throttle oversteer, but within a RWD car, I feel the tendency to spin with any change of throttle position. The next time you pass a S2K, Viper, Porsche, BMW or any other RWD car at the track, it is because they are driving a car that is much harder to drive than our cars. These cars reward an excellent driver and are just plain dangerous in the hands of the inexperience (on the track).

5. Unless I buy a family car or whatever, I will never buy another FWD car again. You just have so much more control when you can turn the rear of the car with the throttle. Not only can you use weight transfer, but the ability to use power is nice. The S2K basically feels like it has wheels in the center of the car on which it rotates. I can see why this car is the car to have in B-stock.

6. I am blessed that God allowed me the transition from light powered RWD car (the Miata) to a medium powered RWD car (the S2K) and hopefully in the future to a dream of a much more powerful RWD car (911 Turbo or GT3, not GT2). Without the knowledge of the Miata, I would be totally freaked out by the S2K. I now know why people crash these cars. If you get a chance to buy a Miata, E30 or E36, MR-2,
etc... do it!! You will learn a lot. FWD can be fast, and can be faster than RWD, but the feel of RWD is such that is hard to explain. It almost feels like "pure" driving....how driving should be.

 

Great write up, confirming what I have believed in for so long.

 

Oh that doesn't help anything, just makes me want an S2000 more

Unfortunately it'd have to be one or the other for me and I'm just not ready to give up 442 yet.

 

I can appreciate that an S2K might be harder to drive at the limit, esp. after watching EFFECT go off 3 times at Nelson's Ledges this past summer in his caged Honda Challenge race car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zygspeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I can appreciate that an S2K might be harder to drive at the limit, esp. after watching EFFECT go off 3 times at Nelson's Ledges this past summer in his caged Honda Challenge race car.


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Mike is a girly man!!! Heh, after watching him haul that car around Gingerman, I can also agree on the different degree of control the s2k warrants.....also the bolts and duck tape shifter they require for proper operation.

 

He still won his class though!

 

Great comments, I too am thinking about a RWD car in the near future (s2k or used NSX). The 6-speed on the s2k is very tight, but one of the best shifting ive ever driven.

 

that was after saturdays crash

Here is the one from sunday. Effect really takes after his mom... by that i mean, he a rough ride.

 

Thats why I have always loved my 1st Gen RX7s and my AE86, RWD is the bomb!

Lots of fun but can be brutally fast or dangerous

 

Is it me or does EFFECT look like that weirdo/serial killer in the movie "Dirty Harry? J/K Mike!

His S2K is awesome, though!

Anyways the S2K is definitley a load to drive near or at the limit. Definitely a higher learning curve than an FWD car such as the ITR. Car is alot of fun to drive nonetheless!

 

Just to make sure this thread is "ITR" related ... haha, I'll add a pic of my car from that weekend!




Modified by zygspeed at 3:20 PM 12/22/2003

 

Nice writeup David. When did you purchase the S2k??

John: who was drinking beer and at the beach for 14 days in Brazil..

 

good stuff, congrats on the S2K!

My friend had an S2K recently, and I had a chance to drive it often. That thing handles like its on rails. It was a 2001 so the torque is a lot lower in the mid range, and I wasnt comfortable passing without downshifting. Id be very interested to test drive a new S2K. Id even own one, but I dont want another car with limited space. Definitely a very nice car though and just like the R, you have to learn to drive it in order to appreciate it fully.

 

The Miata is a excellent car to learn RWD driving techniques in. Its limits are approachable and the chassis communicates very well with the driver. I can see how your previous experience with it enhances your enjoyment and respect for the S2000.

My first RWD car was a 1974 Karmann Ghia. I didn't have so much trouble with the rear end side-stepping during shifts, what with an engine over the rear wheels and all, but it had a nasty case of snap-oversteer.

I do believe that RWD does great things for steering feel.

 

My work modem has been down for over a week, and then I come back to find THIS?

Ha, glad you finally found a worthy S2K Dave...

You're writeup, knowing how you drive and your skill and ability makes me more interested in stealing this FR monster from you for an autocross this coming spring C'mon Teamie, There's got to be an M-club or something soon, no? The Miata was fun but, the 2K sounds like loads more. When I drove Fausto's I guess I just didn't have enough experience yet and or the ability to let the car shine because I wasn't thoroughly inpressed at the time.

Makes me think of that Autocross I ran with Kerry's 5.0 Rustang. Brutally fast, awesome off the line torque, ITR *** kickin ability, till you hit the first turn of course But, the stook sounds like the RWD, power and performance are balanced alot more in comparison.

Good stuff Dave.

Merry Christmas. Best of everything to you and your family. See you soon.

 

Good write up david. When I first got my rx7, the amount of rotation that I was getting freaked me out but after a while, I got used to it and started to feel more comfortable with applying more power in the corners. I got my first lesson about power on oversteer when a freeway onramp that I can usually apply power in the ITR (causing a little understeer) caused the rx7's tail to step out. Not enough to spin out but enough to alarm me and make me get off of throttle, which was a bad idea since it just caused the rear to snap back the other direction before getting back inline. If I had just kept on the throttle, I would have just drifted out of the turn. If the roads were wet that day, I would have spun out.

Although rwd can be dangerous, you just need to learn how to modulate the throttle better than in fwd. I don't know if I agree that fwd can be faster than rwd. I've noticed that in the rx7, I can put power down earlier than in the itr in most corners without understeering.

 

I see 18 to 20K rear springs on the R next season!

Sliding in a new way is always fun, fun, fun.

 

Good writeup...

I've had my '04 S2000 for about a week now and I already spun out. The 1st-&gt;2nd shift at redline is freakin' scary with the rear end sidestepping as you described. And in the ITR you can gun it making a right or left hand turn just fine but with the S2000, too much gas at a 90 degree angle makes the rear end give fairly quick, it's fun, but scary and dangerous!

If you thought the '03's had torque, you should try the '04... with the lower gearing, I cruise in 5th on the streets because 4th gear seems like its winding too high, and no need to downshift to accelerate on the freeway, 6th is just fine!

 

Goor write-up Dave.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by davidnyc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">RWD needs your constant attention when driving spirited. In front wheel drive, when we shift from 1st to 2nd, at redline, the tires will chirp or spin due to a momentary loss of traction. In RWD, this can be dangerous. When you loose traction the back has a tendency to sidestep. This is still nerve wracking. At this time I still avoid shifting at redline in the cold weather.</TD></TR></TABLE>

this part is so true. one thing I'll miss from not having an R is the ability to survive the "momentary loss of traction" with minimal drama. With FWD all you have to do keep a firm grip on the steering wheel to keep the car going forward.

Accelerating in the middle of a turn is no big deal either. Just floor it and keep going. Try that in a RWD car and you are likely to spin out, especially if it wet or cold. My 325i has the DSC "nanny" to save your butt if the rear wheels lose traction. The Miata has no such thing.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by davidnyc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
4. Related to #3 above. If I took this car to a track, I would be much slower than if I was driving my ITR because the learning curve is so much longer. You really cannot alter your speed at all when cornering or at least it feels like you cannot. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Do that and you will spin if you aren't "one with the car" yet. I spun in the 4th turn of lap 1 the first time I took my Miata to the track. it was wet and I got on the throttle too hard/early. thankfully the Miata has no torque so the learning curve is not very steep. Being fast in a high torque RWD car like a 911 Turbo takes some serious skills.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by davidnyc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">6. I am blessed that God allowed me the transition from light powered RWD car (the Miata)</TD></TR></TABLE>

I now understand why people quote safety as a benefit of low-torque FWD cars. A high-powered RWD car in the hands of today's often inattentive/distracted drivers is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jmb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A high-powered RWD car in the hands of today's often inattentive/distracted drivers is a disaster waiting to happen.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's why you bought Sandra a 325i instead of an M3 huh?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sackdz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that was after saturdays crash

Here is the one from sunday. Effect really takes after his mom... by that i mean, he a rough ride.


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lol

 

Nice write up Dave! Glad to see your getting your money's worth 100 miles in 3 days

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by opie112 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nice write up Dave! Glad to see your getting your money's worth 100 miles in 3 days </TD></TR></TABLE>

I think you meant 1000 miles in 3 days.
Hopefully I can get an S2k before they stop production..

 

David: I agree almost completely with what you said.. and boost only compounds #4.. I've been driving the booster beater at the limits and then hit boost and the lose of traction is quite immediate

Of course.. it was fun to rallyx the car.. I couldn't imagine FWD offroad..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by davidnyc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
and hopefully in the future to a dream of a much more powerful RWD car (911 Turbo or GT3, not GT2). </TD></TR></TABLE>

I gues I'll be the first to say, the 911 turbo is AWD and the gt2 is RWD.