Feel Free to Contribute your own experiences


Modified by RotaryBzzzz at 8:42 PM 12/19/2003

 

ok, so wheres your lesson??

 

why it's here of course:

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Lesson One: Bringing together your Weapons

The first thing you should realize is that cars are a demand-type item. First in line will pay the most when new models come out. Generally, there is a gentleman's agreement among the dealerships. The higher-end marques anyway...ie Acura/Bmw/etc. They have pretty much decided to "hold the line" when it comes to negotiating prices. That's why many of you shouldn't be upset with some dealers "not wanting to deal" on the new TSX b/k that is what the General Manager has dictated. Best plan: wait a little while...few months at least after a new car has been introduced. You will see some places faltering on holding the line...Early on, the most you can expect is getting a few freebies...wheel-locks, cargo net...the cheap stuff. But you will still pay MSRP (or thereabouts). Why? b/k they can get it from the next guy.

So you've realized the best time to go is after a few months at least. Now, to narrow down to a specific time of the month --->

Many of you have heard that the best time to buy a car is "the end of the month" right? Well, let me spell it out for you. It isn't the end of the month per se...its the 30th. Period. The 30th. Not the 29th. Not the 31st. Its the 30th. The selling cycle for ALL dealerships ends the 30th of the month. A salesman's/the finance guy's/the general manager's/the district manager's paycheck is cut based off volume between the end of the month and the 30th. Thus the 30th is a powerful day indeed....(more on this later).

You must also remember that dealerships are competing with each other for incentives and bonuses from the Mother Manufacturer (a.k.a. Honda, Toyota, Ford etc). That's why some dealerships can afford to do things with prices that others won't touch. They're making money in doing volume (moving metal as i used to call it) not in the money made per vehicle. So, find the volume dealer in your area and go on the 30th. In SoCal's case this would be Cerritos Acura.
To be continued...

 

 

Some dealerships also have incentives based on quarterly sales, so the last day of the quarter is a good day to play "Let's make a Deal".

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RotaryBzzzz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So, find the volume dealer in your area and go on the 30th.</TD></TR></TABLE>

There's definitely something to that.

Some friends and I bought a total of four EP3 some time ago.

With some dealers, it was clear that you were going to have to haggle your way down from $19,500 and fight for every farthing. One dealer even had the audacity to have an added value markup on the sticker, despite the EP3's clear unpopularity at the time.

But you'd walk into the volume dealer and find " $15,995 " on the windshield, and that included shipping.

Amazing difference in both attitude and price.

 

i agree with everything u said except cerritos acura. i dont think they even negotiate on price... best experiences are said to be with weir canyon, downey, and one in pasadena...

 

Hmm, thanks Rotary, this should come in really handy, as I plan to sell mine (at 50,000km already) and buy another towards the end of January. 30 is the D-day!

 

hey sauce - already??! We'll I better crank these out then!
-----
Part II - Fine tuning your Weapons
Where we last left off, i suggested waiting till the end of the month as a good ploy. Well, here's another one....

Ok, so you've decided to buy NEW. First thing you can do beside going on the 30th of the month is scan the newspapers. I don't mean the sports section. I mean the classifieds. Go thru the classifieds that list cars for sale and find the Acura area. Now look for the dealers advertising a "set price" for a new car / cars. This can be the big page ads or they can be just a small column------ scan, pan & look for a set advertised price.

Now the thing with these ads is that most cars and most "set-prices" just about suck. But sometimes you can find what dealers call "the ad car". The "ad car" is draw car that dealers will use as a loss leader to draw ppl into the store(espcially now that it's the holidays). They want to push deals and are willing to take a much smaller profit (or even a loss) on this car to get ppl in the door. This is exactly why i say to go to the volume dealer in your area simply B/K THE SMALLER DEALERS MAKIN' $$$ per car DON'T DO THESE THINGS! Think about it...which dealership can afford to do this?? The one with 500 or 50?

Anyway, you can USE the "ad car ad" by 1) buying the actual car or 2) use it as a counter at another dealership. Some might say "those ad cars don't exist" or "those aren't real cars" but...THEY ARE. I've known ppl who actually got "the ad car", my brother included (new j-vin 01 accord lx auto/
$16990 on december 30th 2000). [and as a side-note, cerritos acura was blowing out integras LS's for $15.9k new 3 years ago].

Anyway, this is something you'll want to pull out after discussing the terms of the deal...kinda like fishing for their best price then...BAM...show them the best price you found in the newspaper. This really works with honda/toyota/acura...always lots of advertising deals. You want to find the best price and then go to the place that says "we will beat any price". One caution. You must be sure the model numbers match up for the car your talking about. For example, when i was doing acuras a "415" meant an intergra with a stick and cloth and a "446" meant an integra with leather and an automatic (i might be wrong on the exact numbers....its been awhile). These numbers are almost always printed at the bottom of the ad...

In terms of actually barganing with the dealers, many times people think that the dealership always want the customer to pay cash out-the-door today and not finance. That is not completely correct. The dealership actually wants you (w/ at least fair credit) to finance your car becuase this is another revenue stream to make money on. Not really a whole lot, but a good enough percent. I LOVED getting people to finance......always made my day. (well, the one's with good credit anyway - "comebacks" SUCK). To be continued....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tee Es eX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i agree with everything u said except cerritos acura. i dont think they even negotiate on price... best experiences are said to be with weir canyon, downey, and one in pasadena...</TD></TR></TABLE>

You might be confusing price with customer satisfaction. Those are very different things...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RotaryBzzzz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey sauce - already??! We'll I better crank these out then! (...)
I LOVED getting people to finance......always made my day. (well, the one's with good credit anyway - "comebacks" SUCK). To be continued....</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yep, selling mine, it has 52,000km to it, so if I want to still have a chance of not losing money by selling it, it should be now or never. Here's the linkie to the car sales forum: https://honda-tech.com/zeroforum?id=712528

On the second part of the quote, you seem to be saying you worked at a dealer?


Modified by sauceman at 2:14 PM 12/23/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sauceman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yep, selling mine, it has 52,000km to it, so if I want to still have a chance of not losing money by selling it, it should be now or never.</TD></TR></TABLE>

makes sense! (btw, your link didn't work)

yes...i was an acura salesman in another life - ha. (while i was still finishing school).


Modified by RotaryBzzzz at 8:00 PM 3/1/2004

 

[QUOTE=RotaryBzzzz]

(btw, your link didn't work)

QUOTE]
Fixed.

 

mroe! more!

great read so far!

 

what about asking, re-asking, and re-clarifying terms until you understand 100%. i always see people just saying, 'uh-ok' when they see a number, like monthly payment, but not realizing what the total cost will be ie at the end of 36/60months. and bring a pad, pen, and calculator.
and make sure you get everything (extras), either physically or on contract, before you sign. dont trust anything they say imo.

when i buy my first new car im gonna be prepared with a bandana and michete.

btw, is there anything to know about msrp, retail, and invoice?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RotaryBzzzz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You might be confusing price with customer satisfaction. Those are very different things...</TD></TR></TABLE>

could be. since you live in the LA area, what do you think about cerritos acura? i talked to them for a little while and from my experience and what i hear around other message boards they wont budge on the price and their customer service isnt that great. any tips since they are a high volume dealership around here.

btw thanks for taking the time to help us out here.

 

Cerritos Acura or Norm Reeves Honda (Cerritos) are both hi-vol dealers. The thing inherent in being a hi-vol dealer & in a "auto-mall" is that your average Joe Smoe is just a number and that's it. There are a million other people out there coming into the area...literally WALKING right down dealer row. That's why you might get better satisfaction from a smaller dealership or a dealership NOT on a auto-boulevard: i.e. Acura of Pasadena ----&gt; you won't get the best price but you will have a much nicer experience & be treated better. Why? B/k they might not have the same volume of ppl walking down the street & they want you to come back and 1) get your service done and 2) buy another car from them in the future. FYI - there is a customer service satisfaction index among all acura dealers - for LA County, I believe Pasadena Acura is #1 or #2 in customer satisfaction (but don't quote me). A happy customer is a repeat customer & dealerships will hire/fire sales ppl on the basis of whatever their business model is.

Anyway...onto part III!

---------------------------

Interlude: My Ally, My Enemy
Many times, ppl automatically believe they will automatically get a good deal if they have a family member or friend working at the dealership (sales or service).

I cannot agree with this most of the time....It really depends on what your buying and how you work it.... & here's why:

When i was dealin', one philosophy that i encountered was my General Manager's explantion why some dealers, especially lower-end marques (ie ford, GMC, toyota), sometimes hire anybody with a pulse. Basically, those dealers will hire that person, even if that person has NO potential to sell b/k they not only hire the individual, they hire that persons' network of friends, family and old co-workeres.
Why? Here's what I mean....

You have unemployed "Ed" who starts working for Chevy. Being the bumbling idiot he is (and given the nature of the car business) he sells 7 cars the two months he was working there. He was a wash-out. However if you broke those 7 cars sales down into who bought them, it went like this:

3 to his immediate family (uncle Jeb, uncle Bob and his brother John)
2 to good friends
2 to friends of friends

All these people were under the understanding that they would get a deal. Did they....we'll maybe. But what really happened was that the dealership was paying this guy (essentially) minimum wage to steer 7 people who bought 7 cars from their lot. The dealership made money on the financing, made money on the deal and put 7 cars toward their incentive volume from the mother manufacturer. Not only that, the dealership has the potential to have 7 service-relationships with 7 new owners, 7 new patrons who are probably going to go to that dealership for service (per warranty tom-foolery) for AT LEAST 3 years to come to do oil changes, adjustments, tuneups...you name it.
At the same time, there is a limit as to just what the dealership will do for the employee. Talking hi-marque, my deal as an Acura salesman was $100 over invoice on any Acura (except the "hot cars" like the 3.2 TL at the time). However, that was much WORSE than i could've gotten had i did the newspaper routine. As I mentioned above, new $15.9k integras were growing on trees over at the volume dealer in Cerritos. I don't remember the exact differential but it was like 1700 dollars for the same car. Big lump of cash.

So you see car dealin & "getting a good deal" is very-very relative and is all about PERCEPTION. You get a good deal if YOU THINK your getting a good deal.
So my advice....be careful before you let your friend-dealer, friend-dealership worker convince you that he can "get you a good deal". Do your internet research and SCAN all the area newspapers before you do anything.

 

Well thanks again. This is really some good information.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sauceman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well thanks again. This is really some good information. </TD></TR></TABLE>

thnx mann

 

Thanks Rotary - we have our own confessions of a car salesman right here!

Sauce, why are u selling your TSX to get a new TSX? Maybe u should wait for the 05s to come out.

 

Can't really, if I wait for the 05's to come in, I'll be well over 60,000 miles and it won't be resellable. It has to go before January's over or I'm keeping it and driving it straight to the ground.

 

Thanks guys...you didn't think this was going to end yet didja?
---------------------------

First Blood Part III
Many times when you are financing a car, the dealer will try & put doubt in your head about your own credit-worthiness. Take for example my brother's experience the first time around looking for a new car:

Though my brother had a credit score of 806, after running my brother's credit, the CAR salesmen tried acting as if my brother had poor credit. Literally, he went on-and-on about how my brother's credit was "not so good" to put the idea of DOUBT in my brother's head. This (of course) was to make it acceptable...to get my brother to say "yes" to a higher APR/financing rate that would be presented later on...

How this applies to j00: Many times special incentive APR's offered by Honda/Toyota/Lexus etc. will availible to people with a certain credit score of 700+ or 720+ (premo credit). So the moral of the story is get a copy of your FICO score & check what different incentives are being offered for cars in your bracket (ie. 3.9 APR for 36 months, 4.9 APR for 48, etc). By the dealer's feedback, you will get an idea of how honest they are (like saying you don't qualify for the special APR when in fact you do. -remember, they make money on financing)

With easy internet access and credit scores availible, why not go into the dealership as prepared as you absolutely can be??? (though going in shirtless, pumped up & armed with a bow & explosive tipped arrows would probably get you somewhere too!)

check your score here:

http://www.myfico.com &lt;---this is Equifax's score, 1 of 3 major credit houses. Scores can vary among the 3; dealers will use the median of the 3 to determine your "credit-worthiness".

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Credit Report Info: From the LA Times

Starting Monday, consumers can get a glimpse of the three-digit number that often determines whether they can get a car loan, a home mortgage or even a job.
A Web site launched by credit bureau Equifax and credit scorer Fair, Isaac & Co. will charge consumers $12.95 to view their once-secret credit scores, which increasingly determine whether people get credit and how much it costs. Links to the credit score site can be found at both companies' Web sites (http://www.equifax.com and http://www.myfico.com) and at http://www.scorepower.com.
Fair, Isaac says its scores are used in 90% of all the credit extended to U.S. consumers. Credit scores also are used by employers, landlords and insurers to evaluate applicants.

After fighting for years to keep the scores under wraps, Fair, Isaac gave in to mounting pressure by consumers, lawmakers and companies offering rival versions of credit scores.

But some critics say Fair, Isaac and Equifax, one of the nation's three largest collectors of credit information, should have done more for consumers than create another fee-based service.

"It should be free," said Betsy Imholtz, director of Consumers Union's West Coast office in San Francisco. "For years we have been trying to get credit reports for free. . . . They're charging us for access to our own information."
All three credit bureaus charge $8 to $8.50 for a credit report, which details a consumer's borrowing and payment history; consumers who have been denied credit are entitled to a free copy.

Mike Cummins, Equifax's general manager for consumer business, said the $12.95 price includes the company's $8.50 charge for the report, plus $4.45 for the credit score and accompanying explanations, which include personalized interpretations of what factors influenced the score and tips for improving credit.
Credit scores are derived from information in a person's credit report; they can be hurt by late payments, bankruptcies, collection actions and liens. They also can be damaged by credit card balances that are too high or an excessive number of credit accounts--although Fair, Isaac doesn't reveal its specific criteria for how much credit is too much.

"We took a lot of care not to be super-specific," said Cheri St. John, Fair, Isaac's general manager for global alliances. "The formulas and models are very complex, and there really isn't one or two things consumers can do to raise their scores."
Instead, the company hopes to encourage a pattern of behavior--making payments on time, maintaining low balances on credit cards and not applying for too many credit accounts--to improve scores.

Consumers who use Fair, Isaac's Score Power system will get four pages of charts, details and analysis of the four main factors that determined their scores.
Imholtz of Consumers Union said the company's refusal to be more specific, and the densely worded analysis of the scores, will make the site too difficult to understand for many consumers.

"It's a complicated subject, and I give [the companies] credit for trying, but it's tough to get through all that text," Imholtz said.
Fair, Isaac originally fought efforts for more disclosure by arguing that consumers wouldn't be able to understand the significance of their scores without detailed explanations.

Consumer activists responded that people have a right to know more about their scores, and California passed a law that requires mortgage lenders to disclose the scores to loan shoppers starting July 1.
In addition, several competitors

 

I think there's more information that has been lost?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RotaryBzzzz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Consumer activists responded that people have a right to know more about their scores, and California passed a law that requires mortgage lenders to disclose the scores to loan shoppers starting July 1.
In addition, several competitors

</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sauceman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can't really, if I wait for the 05's to come in, I'll be well over 60,000 miles and it won't be resellable. It has to go before January's over or I'm keeping it and driving it straight to the ground. </TD></TR></TABLE>

good luck man! What color are u getting this time?

 

Probably same thing, though I might get tempted by a pearl white. It's just so easy to dirty up and rust away.