Automotive Performance Engineering: The Great Header Test
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Honda-Tech Member
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From: Long Island, NY
Automotive Performance Engineering: The Great Header Test
I know most of you have probably seen this, being that it is 2 years old... but I just ran across the link in my history, and figured I'd share it with you guys...
This should hopefully shut-up all the people asking "which header for NA"...
Anyways here is the link: http://www.ap-engineering.com/header.html
They rate the SMSP and JDM Toda headers as the best 2...
This should hopefully shut-up all the people asking "which header for NA"...
Anyways here is the link: http://www.ap-engineering.com/header.html
They rate the SMSP and JDM Toda headers as the best 2...
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: So Cal, CA
Re: Automotive Performance Engineering: The Great Header Test (631 Teggy)
that was a very cool test...i give whoever set it up LOTS of credit..
BUT..
it's still IMO only a bolt on header test...
it doesn't show you which header shines with tuning...
or with different setups...i.e. 1.8 liter header vs. 2.0 liter header..
setups with mild cams vs. wild cams..
also, dtr, headertech, and i believe anr's headers weren't around or used in that test...
so basically what i'm trying to say is...
the questions will still persist.
BUT..
it's still IMO only a bolt on header test...
it doesn't show you which header shines with tuning...
or with different setups...i.e. 1.8 liter header vs. 2.0 liter header..
setups with mild cams vs. wild cams..
also, dtr, headertech, and i believe anr's headers weren't around or used in that test...
so basically what i'm trying to say is...
the questions will still persist.
Member
Joined: May 2002
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Re: Automotive Performance Engineering: The Great Header Test (EVOL)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EVOL »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that was a very cool test...i give whoever set it up LOTS of credit..
BUT..
it's still IMO only a bolt on header test...
it doesn't show you which header shines with tuning...
or with different setups...i.e. 1.8 liter header vs. 2.0 liter header..
setups with mild cams vs. wild cams..
also, dtr, headertech, and i believe anr's headers weren't around or used in that test...
so basically what i'm trying to say is...
the questions will still persist.</TD></TR></TABLE>
True but I still wouldn't be surprised if those 2 headers made top 2 with all the tuning and different setups on earth. I would buy a Headertech or AN-R just because of the price to performance ratio.
BUT..
it's still IMO only a bolt on header test...
it doesn't show you which header shines with tuning...
or with different setups...i.e. 1.8 liter header vs. 2.0 liter header..
setups with mild cams vs. wild cams..
also, dtr, headertech, and i believe anr's headers weren't around or used in that test...
so basically what i'm trying to say is...
the questions will still persist.</TD></TR></TABLE>
True but I still wouldn't be surprised if those 2 headers made top 2 with all the tuning and different setups on earth. I would buy a Headertech or AN-R just because of the price to performance ratio.
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: So Cal, CA
Re: Automotive Performance Engineering: The Great Header Test (tadeh)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tadeh »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
True but I still wouldn't be surprised if those 2 headers made top 2 with all the tuning and different setups on earth. I would buy a Headertech or AN-R just because of the price to performance ratio.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i agree. another reason why the questions will persist.
DTR and headertech both have proven great hp.
yes dyno numbers by people here on H-T.
but never neck and neck the headers on that "great header test"
True but I still wouldn't be surprised if those 2 headers made top 2 with all the tuning and different setups on earth. I would buy a Headertech or AN-R just because of the price to performance ratio.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i agree. another reason why the questions will persist.
DTR and headertech both have proven great hp.
yes dyno numbers by people here on H-T.
but never neck and neck the headers on that "great header test"
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,465
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From: Bay Area
Re: Automotive Performance Engineering: The Great Header Test (EVOL)
so the SMSP and JDM Toda header made 5wHP over the JDM ITR 4-1 header? Hmm... I thought at least the SMSP header would give gains 10+ wHP. Now I might have to re-think about spending $1000 for a header like the SMSP/DTR/Header Tech/etc. and just go with the JDM ITR header...
But I would like to see them fully tuned and see different header potentials.
But I would like to see them fully tuned and see different header potentials.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,802
Likes: 2
From: FL, USA
Re: Automotive Performance Engineering: The Great Header Test (Skunk2nR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Skunk2nR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so the SMSP and JDM Toda header made 5wHP over the JDM ITR 4-1 header? Hmm... I thought at least the SMSP header would give gains 10+ wHP. Now I might have to re-think about spending $1000 for a header like the SMSP/DTR/Header Tech/etc. and just go with the JDM ITR header...
But I would like to see them fully tuned and see different header potentials.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hence why Titan Motorsports is willing to donate alot of their time to do a real actual full tune header test.
But I would like to see them fully tuned and see different header potentials.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hence why Titan Motorsports is willing to donate alot of their time to do a real actual full tune header test.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,162
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From: Socal, USA
Re: Automotive Performance Engineering: The Great Header Test (BERT-O)
when is titan motorsports planning on doing this?
This test can be used as a reference for bolt-on people to give them a general idea of what each header is capable of, but doesn't really help with people with built engines.
You'll see different results with built engines so you can't jump to the conclusion that jdm itr performs just the same as smsp. I'm sure when a built engine is fully tuned, sms/dtr/hytech will come out on top.
This test can be used as a reference for bolt-on people to give them a general idea of what each header is capable of, but doesn't really help with people with built engines.
You'll see different results with built engines so you can't jump to the conclusion that jdm itr performs just the same as smsp. I'm sure when a built engine is fully tuned, sms/dtr/hytech will come out on top.
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Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Clearwater, FL, USA
Re: Automotive Performance Engineering: The Great Header Test (BERT-O)
That test really makes you wonder why not just get a DC JDM.
I'm waiting for the Titanmotorsports test also. Too bad I don't have a header to contribute.
I'm waiting for the Titanmotorsports test also. Too bad I don't have a header to contribute.
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,104
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From: Orlando, FL, USA
Re: Automotive Performance Engineering: The Great Header Test (Calavera)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Calavera »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">when is titan motorsports planning on doing this?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
we haven't set a date yet because we are still waiting to find out what companies are in for the testing, hopefully i can get something more solid in about a week or so
james
</TD></TR></TABLE>
we haven't set a date yet because we are still waiting to find out what companies are in for the testing, hopefully i can get something more solid in about a week or so
james
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,104
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From: Orlando, FL, USA
Re: Automotive Performance Engineering: The Great Header Test (Calavera)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Calavera »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">where will this happen?</TD></TR></TABLE>
at our facility here in orlando, fl
james
at our facility here in orlando, fl
james
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Re: Automotive Performance Engineering: The Great Header Test (Skunk2nR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Skunk2nR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so the SMSP and JDM Toda header made 5wHP over the JDM ITR 4-1 header? Hmm... I thought at least the SMSP header would give gains 10+ wHP. Now I might have to re-think about spending $1000 for a header like the SMSP/DTR/Header Tech/etc. and just go with the JDM ITR header...
But I would like to see them fully tuned and see different header potentials.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I was at the test and meet a bunch of the H-T folks which was great. We did a lot of work that day and had some fun. However, the curves from all these headers were just too close. I almost dropped my jaw when I saw the stock numbers come out for the first set of runs. This Mustang dyno was recording numbers as high or higher then you'd fine on a dynojet, and I never saw that from a Mustang before. So, I believe something may have been off with it. Check out the Mustang dyno graphs from any of the P1 tuned cars, the number are much lower.
Before any of you get on and start saying, yes but it's a comparison, well if the machine isn't recording accurate numbers then the comparison may also be off.
But I would like to see them fully tuned and see different header potentials.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I was at the test and meet a bunch of the H-T folks which was great. We did a lot of work that day and had some fun. However, the curves from all these headers were just too close. I almost dropped my jaw when I saw the stock numbers come out for the first set of runs. This Mustang dyno was recording numbers as high or higher then you'd fine on a dynojet, and I never saw that from a Mustang before. So, I believe something may have been off with it. Check out the Mustang dyno graphs from any of the P1 tuned cars, the number are much lower.
Before any of you get on and start saying, yes but it's a comparison, well if the machine isn't recording accurate numbers then the comparison may also be off.
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,912
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From: HELLTRACK
Re: Automotive Performance Engineering: The Great Header Test (TitanMotorsports.com)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TitanMotorsports.com »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
we haven't set a date yet because we are still waiting to find out what companies are in for the testing, hopefully i can get something more solid in about a week or so
james</TD></TR></TABLE>
so, who's in for the new test so far???
we haven't set a date yet because we are still waiting to find out what companies are in for the testing, hopefully i can get something more solid in about a week or so
james</TD></TR></TABLE>
so, who's in for the new test so far???
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Re: Automotive Performance Engineering: The Great Header Test (SMSP)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SMSP »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I was at the test and meet a bunch of the H-T folks which was great. We did a lot of work that day and had some fun. However, the curves from all these headers were just too close. I almost dropped my jaw when I saw the stock numbers come out for the first set of runs. This Mustang dyno was recording numbers as high or higher then you'd fine on a dynojet, and I never saw that from a Mustang before. So, I believe something may have been off with it. Check out the Mustang dyno graphs from any of the P1 tuned cars, the number are much lower.
Before any of you get on and start saying, yes but it's a comparison, well if the machine isn't recording accurate numbers then the comparison may also be off.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I just found this post and yeah, what Dave is saying is true and kinda made me wonder, but no one else seemed to have had any experiences with a Mustang dyno. A good friend of mine has a Mustang and it reads WAY lower than a dynojet or dynapack. When i dynoed my stock Type R i got around 130-135 whp peak, with the tell-tale b18c5 power cruve and around 100 tourque. There is also a Mustang 3 hours from here and he says my numbers sound about right. It could be in the software that they were running, as companies other than Mustang make software to run it, or it could be that the length of the load arm was entered into the computer incorrectly, or it could be something else.
I was at the test and meet a bunch of the H-T folks which was great. We did a lot of work that day and had some fun. However, the curves from all these headers were just too close. I almost dropped my jaw when I saw the stock numbers come out for the first set of runs. This Mustang dyno was recording numbers as high or higher then you'd fine on a dynojet, and I never saw that from a Mustang before. So, I believe something may have been off with it. Check out the Mustang dyno graphs from any of the P1 tuned cars, the number are much lower.
Before any of you get on and start saying, yes but it's a comparison, well if the machine isn't recording accurate numbers then the comparison may also be off.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I just found this post and yeah, what Dave is saying is true and kinda made me wonder, but no one else seemed to have had any experiences with a Mustang dyno. A good friend of mine has a Mustang and it reads WAY lower than a dynojet or dynapack. When i dynoed my stock Type R i got around 130-135 whp peak, with the tell-tale b18c5 power cruve and around 100 tourque. There is also a Mustang 3 hours from here and he says my numbers sound about right. It could be in the software that they were running, as companies other than Mustang make software to run it, or it could be that the length of the load arm was entered into the computer incorrectly, or it could be something else.
D Tranny Guru
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,725
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From: Cincity, OH, USA
Re: Automotive Performance Engineering: The Great Header Test (CanadianR)
Mustang dynos do read lower, but they can be reset to give dynojet like numbers.
Which also proves how easy it is to tweak dyno numbers!
Which also proves how easy it is to tweak dyno numbers!
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,177
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From: retired 2/13/10
Re: Automotive Performance Engineering: The Great Header Test (TitanMotorsports.com)
james, when is the 10-94 header goin to b dynoed?? this thing has received alot of hype and i want to see why. i assume u have the header by now.
Honda-Tech Member
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From: IL, USA
Re: Automotive Performance Engineering: The Great Header Test (1 2 NV)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1 2 NV »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">james, when is the 10-94 header goin to b dynoed?? this thing has received alot of hype and i want to see why. i assume u have the header by now.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i don't think anyone has recieved their header from 10-94...
i don't think anyone has recieved their header from 10-94...
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,177
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From: retired 2/13/10
Re: Automotive Performance Engineering: The Great Header Test (KoRE)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KoRE »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i don't think anyone has recieved their header from 10-94... </TD></TR></TABLE>
its been like 2 ****** weeks. supposedly they sent it out the monday after the header test.
i don't think anyone has recieved their header from 10-94...
</TD></TR></TABLE>its been like 2 ****** weeks. supposedly they sent it out the monday after the header test.
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,104
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, FL, USA
Re: Automotive Performance Engineering: The Great Header Test (1 2 NV)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1 2 NV »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">james, when is the 10-94 header goin to b dynoed?? this thing has received alot of hype and i want to see why. i assume u have the header by now.</TD></TR></TABLE>
still waiting on it to show
still waiting on it to show
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,177
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From: retired 2/13/10
Re: Automotive Performance Engineering: The Great Header Test (TitanMotorsports.com)
Quote, originally posted by 1 2 NV »
james, when is the 10-94 header goin to b dynoed?? this thing has received alot of hype and i want to see why. i assume u have the header by now.
still waiting on it to show
still no show. another 2 weeks now huh??? 10-94
james, when is the 10-94 header goin to b dynoed?? this thing has received alot of hype and i want to see why. i assume u have the header by now.
still waiting on it to show
still no show. another 2 weeks now huh??? 10-94
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