Last week, I, along with a handful of others, took our vehicles and decided to do two open track events and two autocross days.

the track events were on two separate tracks (one was 2.2mi, the other 2.3mi) in/around Las Vegas. The autocross was also in Vegas with times around 46secs, average.

About 2-3 months ago, I sold my Fastbrake kit so I could run 13x9 wheels (plus, i was tired of the bleeder valve problems I was having). There are also other issues, like the 11" rotors being nearly twice as heavy as the 9.5" rotors (rotational mass), the flex in the wilwood calipers, the brake squeal, having to order the brake pads, etc.
there was a benefit of the Fastbrakes, one being that Brian has the BEST customer service. Two, brake pads are cheaper for the wilwoods than OEM calipers. I could lock the brakes up with every tyre compound.

Anyways, I switched back to the following setup:
'89 SI brake calipers
Stainless Steel lines (goodridge)
'89 SI rear drums
Hawk HP+ brake pads (fronts)
Ford Heavy Duty brake fluid
'89 Prelude MC (1")
'89 SI Brake booster
Autozone based blank brake rotors
15x6.5 Rota Slips w/ 205/50r15 Falken Azenis


Initial pedal feel was good (as good as honda brakes can get, i guess), but they stopped the car, reliably and effortlessly every single time.

During the entire weekend, I never felt any brake fade whatsoever. Maybe it's my driving style, since I tend to brake early and trail brake the corners. However, in the 95 degree heat, hard braking zones, and high speeds... the brakes worked perfectly, without fade.

Could I have braked deeper? probably. However, I was still one of the fastest cars out at both track events, making me believe braking deeper would only be over-kill, which would be good for road racing, but it was two open track events. If I ran race compounds, I might have felt some fade... i'll be able to test that when i go to Streets of Willow in December.

So, some notes:
1. rear drum brakes are PERFECTLY FINE for open track events.
2. the stock 9.5" rotors are PERFECTLY FINE for open track events.
3. Hawk HP+ pads rock! even if they are $76/shipped.
4. Falken Azenis are sticky sticky street tyres.
5. Don't listen to those guys who tell you you NEED rear discs, especially when they have never stepped foot on a road course or compared the two.


Enough brakes to keep in front of them

 

good to know, good info too. thanks for keeping us informed.......

btw, looks like you kept in front of some good company

 

so for regular high mph street(no autocross or anything) driving drums are good? i plan to boost so i need to be able to stop.

 

That's awesome. Thank you for the informative post. Those of us with stock 89 brakes are glad to hear that. If I upgrade anything, I guess I'll go with autozone rotors and hawk hps or hp+ pads...

I thought I saw the hp+ on tirerack for like $68 shipped? Or am I crazy? *EDIT* That's probably because I don't get charged tax and you do...but for me they'd be $68.50 shipped.*/EDIT*

Alex

 

My rear disk discussion
I hate working on drums..

PLusses
easy to work on,
easy to bleed brakes,
easy to adjust rear brakes
less moving parts


draw backs, to disks
heavier
I hate working on drums

Oh yeah by the way... Driven..

Do you hav the 84 hf drums..
they are Aluminum! and super duper light..and have cooling fins..
Not sure if they last as long as the regular drums though..

 

Nice report. Is the 89 SI booster you refer to from a CRX or a Prelude? How touchy are the brakes with the Prelude MC? Is the lude MC a direct drop in?

Thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Outsane &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">easy to bleed brakes,</TD></TR></TABLE>
they bleed the same way?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">easy to adjust rear brakes</TD></TR></TABLE>
Agreed!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I hate working on drums</TD></TR></TABLE>
the positive side is, you don't have to touch them that often, maybe twice a year.

and the brake booster is a '89 CRX Si. with the prelude MC, it wasn't touchy at all. I could adjust the booster rod to make the brakes feel a bit better, but, it's such a PITA to do so, i just left it alone.

 

prelude MC is 15/16 not 1"

 

You got a pic of the 13x9's? I got 13x6.5's, and I'd like some 9's w/some 205+ series width...

 

Bleeding may be the same.... I forget, for some reason I thought the bleeder screw was in behind on the Drums...

Might be because of the tramatizing time I have had with drums I have deleted it from my brain..

lol...

 

My (old) setup was

Cobalt blank rotors 9.5"
Cobalt IT-R Spec B pads
Centric rear shoes (same ones used on the OPMmotorsports cars)
Ate Superblue Fluid
Stock MC/Booster/Lines

I've never had any fade issues with this setup, even when i took out the brake ducts. Intial bite of the specBs are awesome, with linear brake torque as you go, great pads!

 

I learned how to change the shoes on drum brakes at school on a Camry. It was a lot easier than everyone makes it out to be. Its like a 20 minute job maybe. Although discs are like a 10 minute job, but 20 minutes still isn't much time. That is per side.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by essex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">prelude MC is 15/16 not 1"</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, sorry, 15/16".

My mistake. see what happens when you type without thinking, kam!

 

I can do it, thats not the problem..

I just hate to... This most recent car came with disks...I wasn't goin to swap them again..

its all messy....and then you have that stupid star, adjustment, and you have to take off the drums to do it right or reach behind the brakes with a screw driver in a magical arm position.. ick..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Outsane &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I can do it, thats not the problem..

I just hate to... This most recent car came with disks...I wasn't goin to swap them again..
</TD></TR></TABLE>

See, i can understand not wanting to swap TO drums.

but, there's no performance gain swapping TO discs that i have yet to experience.

 

Can't argue that...since both times I have had disks on an 88si,
1st time I had the disks so it was free, and I was putting in all new poly
2nd it came it with the car..

ok maybe I can..point out some benefits.... (not worth it, nor do they out weigh the losses)

More weight in the rear, closer to 50/50 weight (if you have coil overs who cares)


but the drums weight 40lbs or so less then disks....with the alum drums.


So all in all we are on the same page

 

so would you notice any positive difference if you used a 1" MC?
or would it just be way to stiff?

 

FYI the 88 hf stock have aluminum drums too

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Outsane &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My rear disk discussion
I hate working on drums..
draw backs, to disks
heavier
</TD></TR></TABLE>
how much heavier is the disk set up, compared to the drum set up? is it true that 88 hf's have alumminum brake drums?

 

hey driven how is the ford brake fluid, i went out and got some and i havent had a chance to change it yet. I might go out to streets in december also just depending on the cars readyness tho

 

seems that he had no problem with this Ford HD fluid. another believer made. anything else is just a waste of money.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Outsane &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">More weight in the rear, closer to 50/50 weight (if you have coil overs who cares)</TD></TR></TABLE>
There was a good thread in the road race/autocross forum about this and basically saying, in a front engine, front drive car, you don't WANT 50/50 weight distro...

It basically came down to it handling funny when it was at 50/50. It seems the best weight distro is 60/40 for FWD cars.

 

do you find that HP+ kind of fade after 5 laps of so......have you tried Blue?

 

Driven, I trust you opinion on the subject. Could you elaborate on the issues you were having with the Wilwood calipers with the fastbrakes kit? I want them for bling and for mean, but I want to hear exactly what problems you were having!

Thanks

 

its known that the wilwod calipers expand when braking-they arent stiff enough.

i am running carbotech panther plus, witht he EX master cylinder and drums in back with stainless lines and ATE fluid.

i can say without a doubt my car turns people into believers that pads make more of a difference than any other upgrade. i am toasting rotors left and right tho. i tried removing the metal sheilds behind the rotor to try to get more cooling, and will soon run ducting, but if those dont work, il be upgrading to the EX front knucles..