AEBS Manifold test

Car arrived after ~2.5 hour drive to the dyno, let the car sit for ~1 hour to cool off, pulled the car onto the dyno. We did a few runs to warm up the car, we used the highest run, which was the ~6th if I remember correctly.

Removed the intake manifold and swapped on the AEBS manifold, took the car out for a test drive, added coolant, let the car idle to remove the bubbles from the coolant. Let the car cool down for a short period then ran the car on the dyno.

I have the Hondata datalog files for the runs, but I made a mistake when working with them this morning and deleted them off of the we-todd-did-racing server, I will have to upload them again tonight when I get home.

If anyone wants to see the datalogging files, or the DynoJet run viewer files I will provide links to a place to download them when I have a free moment tonight.

Modifications on the car(I think, hope I didn't forget anything):

HyTech header
HyTech exhaust
Mugen headgasket
Cam gears at +5, +5(net +3.5, +3.5)
Hondata
Hondata intake manifold gasket
290cc/min injectors
Spoon thermostat
Mugen thermoswitch
Icebox
Power steering & A/C

2001 Type-R
~63,000 miles
Mobil1 has ~2,000 miles, 6 autocross runs, and 24 drag runs

BASELINE=BLUE
AEBS=RED
NO P/S=GREEN

Here are the plots


full size, cut and paste into your browser:
http://www.imagestation.com/pi...g.jpg


Here is the torque curve with the A/F ratio



full size, cut and paste into your browser:
http://www.imagestation.com/pi...g.jpg

And then I removed the power steering belt



full size, cut and paste into your brower:
http://www.imagestation.com/pi...g.jpg


Thoughts, opinionsÂ…


Thanks to Chris for the help installing the manifold, and Lawrence at <FONT COLOR="red">DynoSpot Racing</FONT> for allowing us to do this test at his shop and borrow his datalogging box.


Austin


Modified by Austin at 10:42 AM 10/1/2003

 

screwed up the images, austin. edit!

nm

 

thanks for the detailed post!

so 1.5 horses basically across the board... hmmm, no 10-20whp increase huh?

disappointing, but glad to see someone with some factual numbers.

 

the images are a little small for my crappy eyes to read perfectly, but does it basically show that you got at most 1 hp out of the AEBS? And that this was without changing the fuel pressure or timing?

Thanks for the results!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mstewar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the images are a little small for my crappy eyes to read perfectly, but does it basically show that you got at most 1 hp out of the AEBS? And that this was without changing the fuel pressure or timing?

Thanks for the results!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Copy the link below each image, then paste it into your browser for the larger sized version.

Austin

 

[QUOTE=mstewar] it basically show that you got at most 1 hp out of the AEBS?/QUOTE]
i drew the conclusion that power steering sucks...
good info though..

 

OK, so the results on that mildly built motor dont seem as great as on a stock or close to stock motor. Was any kind of tuning done after installing the AEBS manifold? or do those results just show a before and after of the install?

side note, my car felt like a whole new car after removing the p/s belt, and that last chart appears to prove my butt dyno was not lying.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RTW DC2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OK, so the results on that mildly built motor dont seem as great as on a stock or close to stock motor. Was any kind of tuning done after installing the AEBS manifold? or do those results just show a before and after of the install?

side note, my car felt like a whole new car after removing the p/s belt, and that last chart appears to prove my butt dyno was not lying. </TD></TR></TABLE>

No tuning done, there may have been a few areas that we could have changed the fueling on, but nothing much. I did have Lawrence burn me a new chip at the end of the day with some revised setting...but that was mostly for Cold Fuel Enrichment, idle A/F mixture, A/C cut, ELD...need to install the chip when I have a free moment.

Austin

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RTW DC2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">side note, my car felt like a whole new car after removing the p/s belt, and that last chart appears to prove my butt dyno was not lying. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree, the car pulls so much better from the low end, it's really noticable. and steering feel is improved as well. it is much easier to feel the tires' limit now and accurately compensate.

1hp across the board for this maniflod is bullshit... not saying i dont believe your plots b/c i do.

this was the feeling i got from the manifold when it was first revealed... hype.

maybe on a stock engine it will do better but the setup in this post is very similar to mine... thanks for saving me 175$ austin.

 

I see that the intake didn't do much. So much for the 20hp gains huh, but your still making very good numbers.

I remember getting about 2hp from my Comptech Icebox. I think what I learned from this is the best bang for the buck mod is to remove power steering.

 

Austin, if you happen to do any tuning later on with that car and its current set up with the AEBS manifold, let us know how it turns out.

These results also make me not want to worry about testing one out for myself, especially since Im running the JG manifold already. Or course, it may be interesting to see a before and after with my setup to see how it fairs against the JG.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IGGY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I see that the intake didn't do much. So much for the 20hp gains huh, but your still making very good numbers.

I remember getting about 2hp from my Comptech Icebox. I think what I learned from this is the best bang for the buck mod is to remove power steering. </TD></TR></TABLE>

it seems that no p/s gave a lot better gains then the IM . so if you guys want a mod with no tuning required take out the p/s

 

Thanks Austin. Funny, I really am curious what unmentioned changes AEBS may have done to get the 20whp. I think we deserve a response from AEBS, telling us exactly where this chart came from and what the conditions were to actually gain over 20whp. Because right now they just look like a company who is full of BS and used Honda-Tech for their own purposes in order to sell enough units of this part before someone exposed them for the liars that they were. They should have known, this being Honda-Tech and all, that they would be exposed eventually.

http://www.professional-produc...r.pdf

 

Pretty much the same results as B19Coupe, although we did have to retune his car to the full 2hp gain

I'm interested in SurferX's request as well.

C_A_T

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by C_A_T &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm interested in SurferX's request as well.

C_A_T</TD></TR></TABLE>

damn, ITR guys like to go for the jugular haha

IMO, assuming that the company was bullshitting from the start just to sell the product, Im sure they would come up with more bullshit about why our results varied or werent even close to their advertised results. It would be interesting to hear from them though. Wasnt there someone out there from this board that claimed to have seen close to the advertised results in one of the original threads? Cant remember who it was, but dont think Ive noticed them replying to the recent results posts. hmmm.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by C_A_T &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Pretty much the same results as B19Coupe, although we did have to retune his car to the full 2hp gain

I'm interested in SurferX's request as well.

C_A_T</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm going to call Professional Products on their claim, however the person to speak with is at lunch. If you look at the dyno runs from their "test" the days don't match up at all, 01/10/80(run 10?) vs 01/15/80(run 1).

Austin

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Austin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No tuning done, there may have been a few areas that we could have changed the fueling on, but nothing much. I did have Lawrence burn me a new chip at the end of the day with some revised setting...but that was mostly for Cold Fuel Enrichment, idle A/F mixture, A/C cut, ELD...need to install the chip when I have a free moment.

Austin</TD></TR></TABLE>

A gain is a gain. Good to see that someone did a non-tuned test to please everyone. Although, I think just by looking at the A/F comparison, that you could easily pick up 1-3 more hp just by bumping up fuel pressure. That is what happened with mine, 1-2hp across the board on initial and 3-5hp after tuning.

 

Tuned you should be able to squeeze out a little more power

Theres no point in bashing a company for it's claims, It's a lost cause guys every company overrates thier products. People advertise thier products like that to sound appealing to ricers who dont know better. Rememeber the import industry's $ is made from ricers not the few % of us here on honda-tech who actually know what we are doing.

The only dynos that mean anything are the independant back to back test I dont pay attention to companies claims

My thoughts on the manifold

Well the itr manifold is pretty much mastered by honda engineers already so any gains imo are impressive. Also compare this to a skunk2 which is more expensive than this. The skunk2 is basiclaly a copy cat of the R mani right. Well from the way i look @ it, it outperforms the skunk, priced less, outperforms the R manifold. I personally would like to see the # gains on a b16 head/manifold Also mike K made 8whp cross the board with adjusting fuel pressure. You R owners just have to determine whether or not you want to spend the $175 for this gain.
**** you can sell yor manifold afterwards and make back the majority of your money

 

yeah you guys are bitching, but remember this manifold is making more than the ITR one for less the price. Plus I heard it looks like a troll took a dump inside, so if it gets cleaned up it might be able have even bigger gains.

 

Thanks for taking the time to do that Austin.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by -KangaRod- &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah you guys are bitching, but remember this manifold is making more than the ITR one for less the price. Plus I heard it looks like a troll took a dump inside, so if it gets cleaned up it might be able have even bigger gains.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Again, it may be cheaper, but don`t forget to factor in the price of tuning. That could easily add another 200-300 dollars. If you have the R manifold already, I`d just stick with it and spend the money elsewhere.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by -KangaRod- &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Plus I heard it looks like a troll took a dump inside, so if it gets cleaned up it might be able have even bigger gains.</TD></TR></TABLE>

that's quite possibly the most unique way of describe the inside of an IM or any engine part for that matter.

I see good points on both sides. Yeah, it does suck that they (AEBS) said it would do 20whp and it only did 2whp in this case. And while it is true that most manufactures hype horsepower gains, do they do it direct to a user forum? And did that in fact happen in this case or was the original poster linked to this whole thing in another way? And anyway, on the flip side of it all, it *did* make *some* gain, and with a little tuning, maybe it'd make another 3-4whp like some of the other dynos. If that's the case, then $175 for 7-8whp really isn't too shabby compared to what we tend to spend for other mods.

thanks Austin!

 

Converstaion I had with Mike McLellan(sp) at Professional Products

Missing nipple for EVAP Purge - missed in pre-production screening, to be tapped in all future manifolds

Extra nipple the same size as the FPR - didn't know that there was an extra one, going to check into it

Directions did not state that the hose for the FPR needed to be longer - said that he would look into it, I suggested that I had a smaller hose, but if I wasn't at a shop that had hosing I would have been SOL

Nitrous Bosses - I didn't notice them, but I guess that they are there and just need to be drilled and tapped, but what do I know, I'm an NA guy

Claims on gained horsepower - stated that they had seen 20whp, and 15whp on stock cars, obviously there will be variation between each vehicle and now we've heard of a 1-2 whp gain(basically gave me a BS response, looks like they don't know what they've gotten themselves into with the import industry)

As I was speaking with someone this morning they pointed out that what should I have expected from something sold by JC Whitney

That's the news...

Austin

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Austin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Converstaion I had with Mike McLellan(sp) at Professional Products

Missing nipple for EVAP Purge - missed in pre-production screening, to be tapped in all future manifolds

Extra nipple the same size as the FPR - didn't know that there was an extra one, going to check into it

Directions did not state that the hose for the FPR needed to be longer - said that he would look into it, I suggested that I had a smaller hose, but if I wasn't at a shop that had hosing I would have been SOL

Nitrous Bosses - I didn't notice them, but I guess that they are there and just need to be drilled and tapped, but what do I know, I'm an NA guy

Claims on gained horsepower - stated that they had seen 20whp, and 15whp on stock cars, obviously there will be variation between each vehicle and now we've heard of a 1-2 whp gain(basically gave me a BS response, looks like they don't know what they've gotten themselves into with the import industry)

As I was speaking with someone this morning they pointed out that what should I have expected from something sold by JC Whitney

That's the news...

Austin</TD></TR></TABLE>


Thanks Austin for the follow up.

AEBS had a very good reputation before this manifold, which probably was the main resource for professional products marketing scheme, lets see what happens now with Aebs.

The company's quality control is evident once you see the manifold, now it is apparent after reading what he told you about being missed in pre screening production.

 

how exactly do you tune an intake manifold, but like playing with the FPR and stuff?
Wouldn't you have to do that on an ITR too?
either way, if you already have the ITR yeah, it makes sense. But I've got a B16 right now and I'm thinking I'll probably just buy the AEBS when the time comes and get a machine shop to extrude it or something.
What about the B16A2 manifold, I once heard some whispers of guys making more power than the ITR manifold, but I can't seem to get a straight answer.