-Toda Flywheel with Stock Clutch-Pls Advise-
08-23-2003, 06:36 PM
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-Toda Flywheel with Stock Clutch-Pls Advise-
Hello all-hope to get some good advice out of my first post here on Honda-Tech 
anyway, i think i found a good deal on a new toda flywheel, and i was wondering if it was a worthy upgrade for my R which is running stock at the moment. the factory clutch still has many miles ahead of it, so i was hoping to get some feedback/opinions on running the toda fly with the stock clutch set-up. i have read many good reviews about the flywheel which has mainly usually been used in conjunction with other upgrades in the clutch and jdm final drive, but i can only afford to spend on the fly for now.
will i notice a bump in performance without upgrading my clutch? any benefits and/or drawbacks if i run this for a while? the flywheel was not on my first list of mods, but if i can get it now for a decent price, maybe i won't need to wait to install it until i replace the oem clutch.
any help/criticism appreciated as this is always a learned forum
anyway, i think i found a good deal on a new toda flywheel, and i was wondering if it was a worthy upgrade for my R which is running stock at the moment. the factory clutch still has many miles ahead of it, so i was hoping to get some feedback/opinions on running the toda fly with the stock clutch set-up. i have read many good reviews about the flywheel which has mainly usually been used in conjunction with other upgrades in the clutch and jdm final drive, but i can only afford to spend on the fly for now.
will i notice a bump in performance without upgrading my clutch? any benefits and/or drawbacks if i run this for a while? the flywheel was not on my first list of mods, but if i can get it now for a decent price, maybe i won't need to wait to install it until i replace the oem clutch.
any help/criticism appreciated as this is always a learned forum
08-23-2003, 06:44 PM
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Re: -Toda Flywheel with Stock Clutch-Pls Advise- (Krayon)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Krayon »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hello all-hope to get some good advice out of my first post here on Honda-Tech
anyway, i think i found a good deal on a new toda flywheel, and i was wondering if it was a worthy upgrade for my R which is running stock at the moment. the factory clutch still has many miles ahead of it, so i was hoping to get some feedback/opinions on running the toda fly with the stock clutch set-up. i have read many good reviews about the flywheel which has mainly usually been used in conjunction with other upgrades in the clutch and jdm final drive, but i can only afford to spend on the fly for now.
will i notice a bump in performance without upgrading my clutch? any benefits and/or drawbacks if i run this for a while? the flywheel was not on my first list of mods, but if i can get it now for a decent price, maybe i won't need to wait to install it until i replace the oem clutch.
any help/criticism appreciated as this is always a learned forum
</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah.. your wallet will notice drawback.. from personal experience, i woudln't pull transmission out unless for repair or replacing clutch.. while you're there replace flywheel.. but i woulnd't pull transmission to upgrade flywheel..
there will be difference.. but not worth the money unless replacing everything.
anyway, i think i found a good deal on a new toda flywheel, and i was wondering if it was a worthy upgrade for my R which is running stock at the moment. the factory clutch still has many miles ahead of it, so i was hoping to get some feedback/opinions on running the toda fly with the stock clutch set-up. i have read many good reviews about the flywheel which has mainly usually been used in conjunction with other upgrades in the clutch and jdm final drive, but i can only afford to spend on the fly for now.
will i notice a bump in performance without upgrading my clutch? any benefits and/or drawbacks if i run this for a while? the flywheel was not on my first list of mods, but if i can get it now for a decent price, maybe i won't need to wait to install it until i replace the oem clutch.
any help/criticism appreciated as this is always a learned forum
</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah.. your wallet will notice drawback.. from personal experience, i woudln't pull transmission out unless for repair or replacing clutch.. while you're there replace flywheel.. but i woulnd't pull transmission to upgrade flywheel..
there will be difference.. but not worth the money unless replacing everything.
08-23-2003, 07:03 PM
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Re: -Toda Flywheel with Stock Clutch-Pls Advise- (vtec.dc2)
The Clutch will wear faster with the lighter FW so if you are going to replace the FW I'd get a New clutch at the same time OR wait till you need a new Clutch and replace the FW at that time.
You don't want to have to Drop he tranny twice. Well if you are doing the labor yourself then I guess it's up to you.
You don't want to have to Drop he tranny twice. Well if you are doing the labor yourself then I guess it's up to you.
08-23-2003, 07:06 PM
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Re: -Toda Flywheel with Stock Clutch-Pls Advise- (Spoond TEG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Spoond TEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The Clutch will wear faster with the lighter FW
</TD></TR></TABLE>
why would clutch wear faster with lighter flywheel? more whp could place more stress on clutch and stuff around it.. but how can flywheel do that?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
why would clutch wear faster with lighter flywheel? more whp could place more stress on clutch and stuff around it.. but how can flywheel do that?
08-23-2003, 07:19 PM
#5
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Re: -Toda Flywheel with Stock Clutch-Pls Advise- (Spoond TEG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Spoond TEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The Clutch will wear faster with the lighter FW so if you are going to replace the FW I'd get a New clutch at the same time OR wait till you need a new Clutch and replace the FW at that time.
You don't want to have to Drop he tranny twice. Well if you are doing the labor yourself then I guess it's up to you.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Huh?
What did I miss?
I guess I must be ready for a new clutch then,,, Not!
BTW I did my FW when I did a 4.929 FD, another reason to do a LW FW besides replacing the clutch.
And No, my clutch isn't wearing any faster with my Toda FW.
35K miles on my stock clutch with many autocrosses, and several HPDE's on it and no current signs of weakness.
You don't want to have to Drop he tranny twice. Well if you are doing the labor yourself then I guess it's up to you.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Huh?
What did I miss?
I guess I must be ready for a new clutch then,,, Not!
BTW I did my FW when I did a 4.929 FD, another reason to do a LW FW besides replacing the clutch.
And No, my clutch isn't wearing any faster with my Toda FW.
35K miles on my stock clutch with many autocrosses, and several HPDE's on it and no current signs of weakness.
08-23-2003, 07:33 PM
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Re: -Toda Flywheel with Stock Clutch-Pls Advise- (1GreyTeg)
I have the Comptech Al FW with the ACT xtss clutch, I did feel a nice difference when downshifting and a slight improvement when accelerating, As for the wearing issue that someone brought up- I think thats a false statement.
And no I would not do Just a FW by itself. If your stock clutch is fine then leave it alone unless you have mad cash just burning a hole in your pocket.
And no I would not do Just a FW by itself. If your stock clutch is fine then leave it alone unless you have mad cash just burning a hole in your pocket.
08-23-2003, 07:54 PM
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Re: -Toda Flywheel with Stock Clutch-Pls Advise- (vtec.dc2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtec.dc2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
why would clutch wear faster with lighter flywheel? more whp could place more stress on clutch and stuff around it.. but how can flywheel do that?</TD></TR></TABLE>
More Whp? From what? It is not the actualy FW but the manner in which you have to drive the car with a light FW that puts extra wear on the clutch.
LOL here we go again. With a lighter FW you have to rev the engine more espeially in 1st and Reverse. The FW has less rotational mass so it nees to be reved more to keep it from stalling. The Clutch Doesn't grab immediately so it slips on the FW until it matches the speed of the FW.
No where did I say that the Clutch would wear out every week, but with higher revs there is more wear and tear on the clutch.(can anyone deny that?I am sure we all realize that feathering the clutch at higher rpms is more wear on it than at lower rpms right?) I have no clue how many miles are on his stock clutch with what kind of driving How much meat is left on the Stock... My suggestion was to change them both at the same time.
I hope this clears up things a bit.
BTW: 8.6 pound J's Racing FW
Modified by Spoond TEG at 2:09 PM 8/24/2003
Modified by Spoond TEG at 2:17 PM 8/24/2003
why would clutch wear faster with lighter flywheel? more whp could place more stress on clutch and stuff around it.. but how can flywheel do that?</TD></TR></TABLE>
More Whp? From what? It is not the actualy FW but the manner in which you have to drive the car with a light FW that puts extra wear on the clutch.
LOL here we go again. With a lighter FW you have to rev the engine more espeially in 1st and Reverse. The FW has less rotational mass so it nees to be reved more to keep it from stalling. The Clutch Doesn't grab immediately so it slips on the FW until it matches the speed of the FW.
No where did I say that the Clutch would wear out every week, but with higher revs there is more wear and tear on the clutch.(can anyone deny that?I am sure we all realize that feathering the clutch at higher rpms is more wear on it than at lower rpms right?) I have no clue how many miles are on his stock clutch with what kind of driving How much meat is left on the Stock... My suggestion was to change them both at the same time.
I hope this clears up things a bit.
BTW: 8.6 pound J's Racing FW
Modified by Spoond TEG at 2:09 PM 8/24/2003
Modified by Spoond TEG at 2:17 PM 8/24/2003
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08-23-2003, 08:12 PM
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Re: -Toda Flywheel with Stock Clutch-Pls Advise- (Spoond TEG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Spoond TEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I hope this clears up things a bit.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not really but, thanks for your theory. Any proof to all of this?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Spoond TEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LOL here we go again.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Again?
Guess I missed all the "first times?"
Care to link to all the other posts you are referring to?
Not really but, thanks for your theory. Any proof to all of this?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Spoond TEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LOL here we go again.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Again?
Guess I missed all the "first times?"
Care to link to all the other posts you are referring to?
08-23-2003, 08:25 PM
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Re: -Toda Flywheel with Stock Clutch-Pls Advise- (Spoond TEG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Spoond TEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
More Whp? From what? It is not the actualy FW but the manner in which you have to drive the car with a light FW that puts extra wear on the clutch.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
theres a reason stock pressure plate is rated at certain pressure, i guess stock disk can hold, other than springs on it.. but certain things on the car needs to be upgraded at certain whp point.. bottom line is, flywheel will not affect your clutch wear to the point that you may notice, or if any additional wear at all..
now.. if you're going to run more hp.. you're placing more stress on drivetrain.. espesially higher revs.. and has nothing to do with flywheel..
More Whp? From what? It is not the actualy FW but the manner in which you have to drive the car with a light FW that puts extra wear on the clutch.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
theres a reason stock pressure plate is rated at certain pressure, i guess stock disk can hold, other than springs on it.. but certain things on the car needs to be upgraded at certain whp point.. bottom line is, flywheel will not affect your clutch wear to the point that you may notice, or if any additional wear at all..
now.. if you're going to run more hp.. you're placing more stress on drivetrain.. espesially higher revs.. and has nothing to do with flywheel..
08-24-2003, 05:14 AM
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Re: -Toda Flywheel with Stock Clutch-Pls Advise- (vtec.dc2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtec.dc2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
theres a reason stock pressure plate is rated at certain pressure, i guess stock disk can hold, other than springs on it.. but certain things on the car needs to be upgraded at certain whp point.. bottom line is, flywheel will not affect your clutch wear to the point that you may notice, or if any additional wear at all..
now.. if you're going to run more hp.. you're placing more stress on drivetrain.. espesially higher revs.. and has nothing to do with flywheel..</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's not really a theory so much an obvious occurance. I will say that a Stock Clutch is pretty tough cosidering it is a Stock item.
Different driving Styles will allow for a longer or shorter Clutch life.
The Lighter FW (degree of Lightness is also taken into effect as well) The higher revs at engagemnet will wear a clutch moreso than a low rpm engagement.
Seems to me that you mis took my comment to mean the the Lighter FW eats at the clutch. When my meaning is that lighter FW requires a certain driving style which will wear a clutch more so. Not to say that you will run through clutches every year, but I am SURE no one here has actually taken the milage from thier Stock clutch and FW combo and compared it to the longevity of the Light weight FW Combo. To do this one would have to change the clutch and FW at the SAME time.
Honestly I am sure those refuting my comment have probably never really thought of it as an issue. Perhaps you chalked it up to getting on the gas a little too often.
The Discussion I was speaking of was a Discussion on Flywheels
The lighter the flywheel is, the harder it is to get the car moving from a stop just requires a somewhat higher RPM before the clutch is let out - which wears the clutch faster.... Is this a More clear Statement?
theres a reason stock pressure plate is rated at certain pressure, i guess stock disk can hold, other than springs on it.. but certain things on the car needs to be upgraded at certain whp point.. bottom line is, flywheel will not affect your clutch wear to the point that you may notice, or if any additional wear at all..
now.. if you're going to run more hp.. you're placing more stress on drivetrain.. espesially higher revs.. and has nothing to do with flywheel..</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's not really a theory so much an obvious occurance. I will say that a Stock Clutch is pretty tough cosidering it is a Stock item.
Different driving Styles will allow for a longer or shorter Clutch life.
The Lighter FW (degree of Lightness is also taken into effect as well) The higher revs at engagemnet will wear a clutch moreso than a low rpm engagement.
Seems to me that you mis took my comment to mean the the Lighter FW eats at the clutch. When my meaning is that lighter FW requires a certain driving style which will wear a clutch more so. Not to say that you will run through clutches every year, but I am SURE no one here has actually taken the milage from thier Stock clutch and FW combo and compared it to the longevity of the Light weight FW Combo. To do this one would have to change the clutch and FW at the SAME time.
Honestly I am sure those refuting my comment have probably never really thought of it as an issue. Perhaps you chalked it up to getting on the gas a little too often.
The Discussion I was speaking of was a Discussion on Flywheels
The lighter the flywheel is, the harder it is to get the car moving from a stop just requires a somewhat higher RPM before the clutch is let out - which wears the clutch faster.... Is this a More clear Statement?
08-24-2003, 08:50 AM
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Re: -Toda Flywheel with Stock Clutch-Pls Advise- (Spoond TEG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Spoond TEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Different driving Styles will allow for a longer or shorter Clutch life.</TD></TR></TABLE>
you need to learn to rev match. by learning how to shift properly you can prolong the life of your clutch regardless of the lightened fw. it is something that you dont really think about when you have a stock flywheel.
i say if you are doing the work yourself then go for it. however, if you need to pay someone to drop the tranny do not bother with a flywheel install at this point.
if you can really get the toda for a low price my advice would be to buy it and sit on it untill the right time to install, if you decide you dont want it later just turn around and sell it again, it will still be brand new. my .02
Different driving Styles will allow for a longer or shorter Clutch life.</TD></TR></TABLE>
you need to learn to rev match. by learning how to shift properly you can prolong the life of your clutch regardless of the lightened fw. it is something that you dont really think about when you have a stock flywheel.
i say if you are doing the work yourself then go for it. however, if you need to pay someone to drop the tranny do not bother with a flywheel install at this point.
if you can really get the toda for a low price my advice would be to buy it and sit on it untill the right time to install, if you decide you dont want it later just turn around and sell it again, it will still be brand new. my .02
08-24-2003, 10:30 AM
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Re: -Toda Flywheel with Stock Clutch-Pls Advise- (euclid)
thanks so much for all the advice guys...every comment here has helped me in my decision and brought up some issues i did not even consider. great opinions.
this is exactly why i like this Honda-Tech...an encyclopedia of knowledge from the best people out there in the field with real experience
right now, the R is used for daily driving when i can with less than 10K miles on the engine/tranny, which is why i am a little anxious about pulling the tranny at this point. i've enjoyed her for almost 3 years now stock, and would like to up the performance gradually with mild upgrades and be able to tackle the track/strip in the future with a little more pep
as for now, i enjoy her mainly for spirited driving on deserted roads and weekend jaunts..
thanks all
this is exactly why i like this Honda-Tech...an encyclopedia of knowledge from the best people out there in the field with real experience
right now, the R is used for daily driving when i can with less than 10K miles on the engine/tranny, which is why i am a little anxious about pulling the tranny at this point. i've enjoyed her for almost 3 years now stock, and would like to up the performance gradually with mild upgrades and be able to tackle the track/strip in the future with a little more pep
as for now, i enjoy her mainly for spirited driving on deserted roads and weekend jaunts..
thanks all
08-24-2003, 03:47 PM
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Re: -Toda Flywheel with Stock Clutch-Pls Advise- (Krayon)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Krayon »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this is exactly why i like this Honda-Tech...an encyclopedia of knowledge from the best people out there in the field with real experience </TD></TR></TABLE>
this is tru, you just have to be careful who you ask. some people think they know it all.
get the FW, you won't regret it
</TD></TR></TABLE>this is tru, you just have to be careful who you ask. some people think they know it all.
get the FW, you won't regret it
08-25-2003, 04:45 AM
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Re: (RICHJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RICHJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just rev match, which I found easier to do with a lighter clutch. Clutch won't wear any faster infact it will last longer if you revmatch properly.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Okay then Please explain then how to "rev match" Properly so as not to wear the clutch more with higher revs required to get te car moving.
BTW I might just be overly maticulous when it comes to things like this. I don't want to change the FW unless I change the clutch. Kinda like I never replace just one tire on my car. I replace all four. You know stuff like that.
Okay then Please explain then how to "rev match" Properly so as not to wear the clutch more with higher revs required to get te car moving.
BTW I might just be overly maticulous when it comes to things like this. I don't want to change the FW unless I change the clutch. Kinda like I never replace just one tire on my car. I replace all four. You know stuff like that.
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