I'm getting an alignment done tomorrow, and I was wondering what kind of specs I should tell them to set my car at. I'm running about .75" lower than factory on my coilovers (over 500lb springs) with upgraded rear sway and I don't have/need/want a camber kit because the car is primarily for autox.

I am assuming that I want a little toe-out on the front and as much camber as I can get, but what about the rear of the car? Leave that factory spec? Any suggestions about either? Thanks.

 

Toe is about all that you can adjust on an Integra. An "autocross" alignment is usually something like zero toe front, toe out rear. The amount is up to you, depending on preference, driving ability, and street use....(don't want a car to get twitchy on the street)
If your ride height is adjustable, you can lower it for more camber, but you sacrifice suspension travel.

--wishing tradeoffs weren't a fact of life--

 

With Zeal function B6's, suspension travel/ride height is not an issue since both are adjustable

Although, the 225/50's limits how low I can go.

 

Explain how that works please. You can increase susp. travel while lowering the ride height?


[Modified by madhatter, 3:28 PM 8/8/2001]

 

Toe is the only thing that is factory adjustable (i.e. without aftermarket parts.) On my GS-R I run 1/8" toe out in the front and zero toe in the rear, but my car is stiffly sprung in the rear so you may want to consider a little toe out to help you rotate if that is a problem. As far as camber, having lowered the car .75", you are probably just over -1 degree of camber in the front. Beg, borrow or steal a pyrometer and take your front tire temps immediately after your runs. The object here is to get the outside, middle and inside to be the same temperature. You may have to change ride height to accomplish this, but in the long run it will benefit you to get it as close to even as possible since it will greatly prolong tire life. I used to think the same thing you do about the camber; I never thought I'd hear myself say I have too much camber, but I did. I was running just under -2 degrees up front on my Hoosiers and I was wearing the insides of the tires out first. A check with the pyrometer showed an increase in temps from outside to inside. I wound up raising the car .66" this past weekend and now have it nearly even and ready for a new set of stickies.

Of course, I am a loser that got beat by a Nissan Sentra so you may just want to disregard everything I've said here, and always.

Mike


[Modified by RacerMike, 1:03 PM 8/8/2001]

 

Toe out was what i thought. I have an upgraded rear sway and over 500lb springs in the rear, so rotation isn't much of a problem anymore, especially when I have no back seat at all to weigh me down (gotta love SM rules).

I'll try an 1/8 toe out in the front and see how that works this weekend at the cendiv champ.

And judging by the hand pyrometer, my heat distribution is actually pretty good at the ride height that I am at.

******

The Function B6's have adjustable stroke as well as adjustable height. It is hard to visualize, but if you see how you adjust them, it is pretty slick.

 

I always enjoy a discussion about toe, but I find that it makes my head hurt after a while. As Chris said, there are a lot of trade offs here. Consensus seems to be that some toe out in the front is good, especially because the wheels/tires "straighten out" (moving toward neutral toe) under accerleration. Toe out in the rear is helpful for getting the car to "rotate" in tight corners. I recently bought some new skins for my car and the guy at the tire shop where a lot of Atlanta area autocrossers go talked me out of setting any toe out for the front or the rear because he said that toe out for a daily driver (which is my car) would result in cupping and scuffing on the inside part of my tires and, therefore, would greatly reduce the life of the tire. So, now I'm set at zero toe, front and back. I very much appreciate the fact this guy was trying to take care of me and my new RE730s, but what's a guy supposed to do if he wants to run alittle toe out, buy a car for racing purposes only? I guess I can't have both ways...

 

Here's what National level ITR drivers use for Alignment specs:
Front Toe: 1/8" total toe out (1/16" toe out on each side)
Rear Toe: 0

To help with rotation: Asphalt use 225's all the way around, on concrete, 225's in front and 205's in rear.

Bottom line, you'll get a 100 different set-up opinions...good luck finding the one that works for you!

 

Sounds like you have plenty to allow easy rotation. I would not toe out the rear and might even toe it in a little for high speed stability. But you might try 1/8 - 3/16 per side toe out in the front.

Toe out in the front preloads the bushings so turn in may be quicker. Too much toe reduces acceleration and braking and increases tire wear. Basically you are dragging the tire over the pavement.

Toe out combined with negative camber really increases tire wear on an ITR. My ITR stock has 1 degree negative in the front. Combining this with my 3/16 toe out makes for some interesting wear patterns on my street tires. With your lowering you may have as much as 2 degrees negative camber so be careful with the front toe.

Regards,
Alan

 

I set my specs as following:

-1.5 degree camber front
-1.0 in the rear

1/8 total toe out in front
0 toe in the rear

We'll see how this works at the cendiv this weekend

 

What does suspension compression do to toe on Hondas? I know this has been covered before, but had a little trouble finding that thread. (coulda been another board?) Do they toe in or out as you lower (or load) the suspension?

 

Toe In as negative camber increases.