I picked up an STi a few weeks ago, and I just got through the break in period this past week. Last night I drove the STi and the ITR back to back, and I realized that I never posted here to tell people I'm moving on.

I'll spare everyone the driving impressions, unless there are people that want to know my thoughts.

I've met a bunch of great people on the ITR forums, and I hope to still see some of you again at future events.

Here's the car fs link:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=558447

 

Please post driving impressions.

 

Jim, let uz know how it compares to the ITR after driving them back to back.

 

Oh come on, we all know what he is going ot say; the STi is far superior.

I think I need to just get an NSX. I don't think I'd ever see a post on a NSX forum saying "Sold the NSX for a ...."

 

Good Choice If I were to replace my R it would prob be to an Sti or Evo
Good Luck

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by onyx00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh come on, we all know what he is going ot say; the STi is far superior.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Surprisingly, that isn't the case. That isn't really the case. It is the better car for me at this stage of my life, but as far as the driving experience is concerned, I would really be happy in either car.

I'll post up a full comparison later today.




Modified by jim at 1:57 PM 7/21/2003

 

I'll start off by saying that before the STi, I drove a CRX for 8 years, and a Type R for 5 years. As a result, the Type R is much more familiar to me. I'm pretty sure I'd be faster in the ITR at the track, just because I know the car so much better.

Now for the comparison between my STi and ITR:

Interior:

The first thing I noticed when I got back into the Type R is how much different the controls are. The steering wheel feels huge, the clutch pedal takes about 1/5 the amount of pressure, and the shifter is MUCH easier to shift between gears. I've grown to really like the STi shifter, but I still enjoyed driving the R. The stock Type R seats are a far better seat than what comes in the STi. The STi seats felt like sitting in a wooden chair after I got out of my R.

Exterior

I *LOVE* the HID's on the STi. They light up the whole road. I'm also really enjoying a different body color. The silver STi is much more understated than my yellow R.

Braking

Both cars seem to be capable of similar stopping distances, although the feel is quite different. The STi pedal requires almost twice as much pressure as an equivalent stop in the R. Braking is the only place where it seems like I can really feel the weight difference between the two cars. I currently like the ITR braking better, only because I'm more familiar with it. I'm sure the STi brakes will allow more accurate modulation of the brake pedal.

The STi brakes dust like crazy.

Acceleration

Obviously, the STi has a lot more power. The car just rips off the line without much turbo lag at all. Flooring it in the STi is a wonderfull experience, especially for small bursts in the middle of the powerband. Having grown so accustomed to a flat torque curve, it always disappoints me that the power starts dropping off so drastically after 6k rpm. The 7k redline is almost unneeded after 1st gear.

The thing about acceleration is that your brain adjusts to a car's power level quickly. After driving either car for about 5 minutes, I became accustomed to that car's power. The STi is exhilerating to floor it the first time I get in it, but it begins to feel ordinary after a few times in a row. (I guess this is why some people are always looking for more power!) When driving spiritedly, I actually prefer the linear powerband of the ITR.

Handling

The suspension seems to be much stiffer in the STi. The extra weight makes for a similar ride quality, but I can't cause the suspension to compress AT ALL by pusing down on the car. The Type R is comfortable to me at the limit. I've always thought the ITR made me look like a better driver than I am, and I believe that now more than ever. I'm not comfortable with the STi's handling limits, so I can't comment on that yet. When driving at 5/10ths, the STi just turns instantly, as if it has an infinite amount of friction. In comparison, the Type R feels a bit more hesitent on turn in.


Those are just my basic impressions driving around on some abandoned streets last night. I'll probably have a better impression of the STi once I get it out to an autox or driving school.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by onyx00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh come on, we all know what he is going ot say; the STi is far superior.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Jack in Japan bought an Evo7 but he kept saying he missed his R and the R is more fun to drive......

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by onyx00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh come on, we all know what he is going ot say; the STi is far superior.

I think I need to just get an NSX. I don't think I'd ever see a post on a NSX forum saying "Sold the NSX for a ...."</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol maybe they have enough money to buy a new car without selling NSX, most ITR own arent rich like people drives M5 NSX ..etc they cant keep two cars at the time

 

My point being is that all around the STi is going to perform better.

When one of you guys passes an STi at a lapping event, let me know, I will be surprised.

Should also realize we are comparing $24K to $33K. Almost a $10K difference. That's a pretty big jump.

I like my R, but of course I would much rather have a new STi.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GettaluvR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

most ITR own arent rich like people drives M5 NSX</TD></TR></TABLE>

What does this mean? They make an M5 NSX? what is that, some hybrid?

canuckr got out on the track in an STi. Not sure if he drove or just got a ride.... he had lots to say when he got outta the car

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jim &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I drove a Type R for 5 years.

The silver STi is much more understated than my yellow R.</TD></TR></TABLE>

- I don't understand. Did you have your 98 painted?

Anyways, nice write up... I have been eyeballing the STi very closely since it first came out, and your comments were well received.

Thanks!

 

Unbiased opinions and writeups always make a good read.
Thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Civic Minded &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

- I don't understand. Did you have your 98 painted?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

He had a 98 stolen and replaced it w/ a 2000...I assume that there wasn't a large gap between owning the two. So he had an ITR from 98 until now = 5 years

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jason &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

He had a 98 stolen and replaced it w/ a 2000...I assume that there wasn't a large gap between owning the two. So he had an ITR from 98 until now = 5 years </TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly. Driving that neon rental for a month between itr's was brutal.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

I can't wait to get mine, I put down a deposit already, but the wait list here is 4 months, so I won't be getting it until November. Just in time to try out some drifting in the snow!

 

I am in a similar situation as Jim but fortunately, I get to keep my ITR. I will comment similarly to Jim. I had a 89 Si hybrid for 3.5 yrs, then a 95 Si hybrid for 4 yrs, then got an ITR about a year ago. I've always auto-x'd/lapped FWD/RWD so AWD was a bit different.

Cliff Notes
The ITR is soft compared to the STi in brakes, steering, seats, and clutch. The STi is a great car in handling, braking, acceleration but its weight is its biggest flaw.

Interior:

After driving my STi for a month straight, I recently replaced some cracked rotors on my ITR so I got some seat time while bedding in the pads. True the steering wheel is huge and it is also overboosted compared to the STi. The feeling is more direct in the STi which I attribute primarily to the wider tires. The clutch pedal is much softer than the STi like jim says. Although the STi has a nice short shifter, I feel that it is vague compared to the ITR. This may be because I have only 1500 miles of experience in the car though. The seats are wide in the STi but firmer. If I were 200+ lbs, I would fit fine (I'm 5'9" 165 lbs). The ITR seats actually hold be better and are marginally more comfortable yet I would prefer them to be a little bit more firm especially in the side bolsters. The pedals in the STi are nicely placed for heel-toe but the transmission tunnel makes for some awkward foot action compared to the ITR. I think it is something I just need to get used to. I like to rest my heel on the floor when I brake and swivel it to the gas. But if you do that in the STi, your heel hits the trans tunnel (especially with regular shoes). The tach is where it should be (in the middle) and the rev alarm/light is wonderful. I'm used to revving to 8K and the alarm keeps me in check. I thought that in race conditions I would not be able to hear/see it but after my first auto-x, it actually gets my attention. Headroom is huge compared to the ITR which makes wearing a helmet much easier. I occasionally hit my helmet on the upper door frame area in ITR. The water sprayer actually works. If many of you guys don't know, the STi has some knocking problems at 4k rpm. My car has the problem. Subaru currently is working on fixing the problem. When the car knocks it is usually in hot weather and/or due to heat soak in the intercooler. After parking my car for 10 minutes and driving off hard, I heard it knock. I then gave the car a spritz and I could no longer make it knock for the rest of the drive. The rear seats don't fold down like an ITR and they eliminated the rear pass through which kinda sucks. The trunk is surprisingly large in width, depth, and height even with the water spray resevoir (sp?) in the passenger side trunk area.

Exterior

The hood scoop is huge especially in the side profile. But it does not block vision at all. The wing is pretty large too but coming from an ITR, it is nothing new. Knowing that the 02' WRC WRX ran a similar wing keeps the riceboy slurrs in check. I, too, love the HIDS. The level adjustment feature is nice and makes it a little bit easier on the oncoming traffic. If you don't know the new WRX now has the antenna in the rear window which I am personally happy with since a pull-out antenna is cheap. The trunk is hard to close and open for a lot of people including me. It has to do with the alignment of the locking assembly. An annoying thing is that the trunk lock mechanism is in the trunk. So if you want to lock it, you have to open the trunk to do so. Also, if you don't know that the trunk is locked you can stretch the cable out of spec trying to pop it open. For a long time I couldn't decide on the color I wanted but realized at the end that the color of the car didn't matter. They all look good.

Braking

The first thing I noticed when I got in my STi was the brake pedal. It is very firm and has excellent feel. Although you'd think that the car can stop on a dime with minimal effort, it takes quite a bit of force to get the heavy 3260 lb to halt. I expect the brakes to be fade free but I have to wait until mid august when I take it lapping. Jim is right, they dust a lot. I don't care though. I am happy that the car comes with everything I need and nothing I don't.

Acceleration

I agree totally with jim's statements. The car pulls strong and smooth without any excess noise/vibration typical of a honda vtec engine. The max torque is at 4000 rpm (300 ft-lbs) and the acceleration steadily drops off to redline. Getting on highway on-ramps is easy. And if someone won't let you in, you just get on the brakes and stomp on the pedal to get behind them and then smoke em'. 5th and 6th gears are both overdrive but still exhibit great pulling power south of 4k rpm. Unlike the 2.0 liter WRX the extra displacement gives you enough low end grunt that you don't have to rely on turbo boost to get up and go. Having this much power is sometimes a bad thing because I found myself staying in the power way too long (because it was addicting) that I would often come in too hot for a turn (auto-xing).

Handling

I agree with jim that the suspension seems stiffer in the STi. However, I feel that a lot of it is due to the low profile tires. Yet the car is surprisingly smooth on decent pavement and the only sound intrusion is tire noise and a little driveline followed by engine sounds. The ITR is much louder inside because of the lack of floor and firewall insulation. The STi handles very well but its biggest flaw is its weight. Although you have AWD and 3 LSDs do help with traction the car must be driven differently to attain fast times. I have yet to learn how to do this. I do know for a fact that the Subaru AWD will make bad drivers look good. Anytime you have torque, traction, and decent driving skills you can be fast. The car is incredibly stable at limit especially in steady state cornering. I actually sustained a 4-wheel drift for a small time and it was as easier to control oversteer in an ITR in the same condition. One big thing I have to get used to is in steady state cornering with slight throttle application, if you lift off the throttle slightly, you actually have to correct the steering angle to maintain the same turning radius. This was a bit unsettling for me since the FWD/RWDs that I usually drove never did that. I think it has to do with the front LSD.

I don't have many other comments on the car for the most part. I am very happy with the car and am not nearly as paranoid about theft compared to the ITR. If my car gets stolen I can just buy another one. But you can't replace an ITR nearly as easily as you can an STi.

Here is a pic of the car in action. I didn't do too well because my tire pressure wasn't right. The WRX guys actually recommend an even split from front to back. I was running a typical foward bias tire pressure. This resulted in way too much understeer.





Modified by markpaco at 11:43 PM 7/21/2003


Modified by markpaco at 11:52 PM 7/21/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by canuck-mx6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I can't wait to get mine, I put down a deposit already, but the wait list here is 4 months, so I won't be getting it until November. Just in time to try out some drifting in the snow!</TD></TR></TABLE>

High Roller!!! Wayne, whatever you're into, whether it be selling your body or stealing from bums...I want in

 

That was a great summary!

markpaco pretty much covered all of my thoughts that I didn't occur to me when I did my writeup.

 

i really like the ITR but when it comes to an sti i drool for one

 

Thanks for the great, unbiased reviews... That's the stuff that makes this forum the best

 

My last visit to Gingerman a firend of mine brought his for the clubsi event. For some reason he let me take it out for a few good laps around the track.

My first imperssion was how much more power the sti had compared to the itr. It was a wonderful feeling having the power pull you out of a turn. The other big difference was when you lift throttle the car understeers, this is completely opposite from what I am use to. Under throttle the car would rotate, however not as much as my car. I generaly like alot of rotation, so I set-up my car to do so. It would have been nice to be able to play with tire pressures. I dont remember what there were set at when I drove it. You can also feel that car weights 3200 pounds when you push it around the track.

Brakes were great, really no complants. From what I can remember I was braking a just a little before my nornmal braking points with the itr. The owner did expirence some brake fluid problems, so we flushed the stock fluid with ate super blue(stock pads). After that, no problems with the fluid or fad. One bad thing that was mention above was brake dust, there was alot of it. Also need to mention that there are two nipples per caibler, so it took alittle longer to bleed.

The seats werent the greatest in the world, they need more support. The shifter was nice and smooth. Also the pedals were seemed fine for me, no problems for me to heel and toe. I never messed with the diff or anything like that, just drove the car with one huuuggggeeee smile on my face.

I think with a good driver the sti will be faster(stock for stock). With some more seat time and better pressures, I am sure I can beat my best time at gingerman. Someone ran a 139 in a stock sti, where my best time is a 140 with a few mods. I have also had alot of seat time at gman also. Overall I loved the car!!!!!! However its not something I would sell 163 for. There is something about the itr I love!!!! Now only if I can get it running, I would love it even more.

 

good comparison reviews.

 

Hey, great reviews. Did any of you guys get to drive the STi at a less than frantic pace, to see how the cruising was? ie. revs at 80mph, noise, etc.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slash00R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey, great reviews. Did any of you guys get to drive the STi at a less than frantic pace, to see how the cruising was? ie. revs at 80mph, noise, etc.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Most of my driving in the STi has been at a less than frantic pace.

Revs at 80 mph are 4k in 5th gear, and around 3k in 6th. The STi is much quieter than the Type R on the highway. At 80 mph, there is plenty of torque in 6th gear for most passing situations. (situations I would usually drop down to 4th for in the ITR)

The aggressive tires on the STi are really the only things that made it loud. I'm interested to see how it sounds with my winter tires on it.