Like the title says, are ITB's better then say a JG intake manifold or a skunk intake manifold. Other then the short distance for the air to travel what are the advantages/ disadvantages of the ITB set?

 

do a search for ITBs, ITB's, ITB, individual throttle bodies, throttle bodies, TONS of stuff will come up. ive been doing a lil research myself

 

One advantage of ITBs is at part throttle the opening is smaller (cylinder-by-cylinder, you have 4x42~48mm throttle plates vs 1 62mm) giving good velocity while collectively at WOT the potential airflow is much greater. There is also a more even distribution of air to the cylinders than with a plenum.

The downside is that they're not all that easy to tune without a standalone ECU and a couple of band-aids. They also aren't emissions-friendly, and they're noisy.

I don't see why more people don't use carbs instead. A pair of Webers would be easier to tune IMO.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MK Ultra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't see why more people don't use carbs instead. A pair of Webers would be easier to tune IMO. </TD></TR></TABLE>

sure, if the weather never changes.

 

the reason ITBs may be a good upgrade for some people
is that the stock manifold/tb setup b/c the bottleneck at a certain point after doing extensive engine mods. seeing as how people make well over 250whp on a stock manifold setup, it will be a long while before you need ITBs on an ITR

 

I don't know what the deal is about a Full Standalone ECU and ITBs. Installed properly, I bet a stock ECU can run ITBs with a piggyback controller, much like my Hondata.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by len &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't know what the deal is about a Full Standalone ECU and ITBs. Installed properly, I bet a stock ECU can run ITBs with a piggyback controller, much like my Hondata. </TD></TR></TABLE>

cheetah does it. check the pacman 242 whp all motor street car post, he said he did it on a p72 a afc. max from luckyracing also does it. yoshikatu as well.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FizzleDaKlown &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

sure, if the weather never changes.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Eh, couple turns of a screwdriver every week or so. The Dellortos on my Ghia were pretty easy to keep running smoothly. Worst part was the throttle linkage, and that wouldn't be a problem on a B-series.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by len &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">a piggyback controller, much like my Hondata. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Hondata is NOT a piggyback controller.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sgT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Hondata is NOT a piggyback controller.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So you're saying Hondata is a self contained ECU that can function without a factory ECU? Like Power FC, AEM EMS, Haltech, Autronics, and FAST?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by len &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So you're saying Hondata is a self contained ECU that can function without a factory ECU? Like Power FC, AEM EMS, Haltech, Autronics, and FAST?</TD></TR></TABLE>

you are so clueless.. ofcourse it is a standalone. the entire hondata program loads up on a chip and fits inside the ecu. just b/c it uses the stock ecu as the method in which it processes the info doesnt make it a non-standalone. a piggback controller can only make adjustments (minor at that) to an existing stock program, with the hondata, you make an entirely custom setup.

the purpose of the interface box is to provide, on the fly adjustable rev limits, for launch, full throttle shifting, vtec and overall rev

as well as allow you to datalog, if you have that option installed.
there are now other options the hondata is featuring, such as a g-sensor, which helps you gather other various information.

you should do you homework before you make posts.

 

I think that what he was alluding to, is that it is not a true stand along since the stock ECU is still required. It basically gives you control over the stock ECU allowing you to change timing/fuel maps etc.

 

We can say Hondata "functions" like a standalone and has most features of a standalone... but I don't consider it a standalone. The word "standalone" means that it functions without the stock ECU, hence the word alone. It is not a piggyback either because it does not alter the signals before it reaches to the ECU. We'll just say the Hondata is a hacked version of the stock ECU which allows you to alter everything inside it

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by len &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So you're saying Hondata is a self contained ECU that can function without a factory ECU? Like Power FC, AEM EMS, Haltech, Autronics, and FAST?</TD></TR></TABLE>


I don't consider the power fc to be a standalone either..... it's like a wired-in piggyback onto a p28. Much less effective and flexible than hondata - which is like a standalone, at least as much of a standalone as a honda will ever need.

 

just depends upon how you define "standalone"

But it seems that most everybody has had good success with running hondata and itb's afaik

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


I don't consider the power fc to be a standalone either..... it's like a wired-in piggyback onto a p28. Much less effective and flexible than hondata - which is like a standalone, at least as much of a standalone as a honda will ever need. </TD></TR></TABLE>

PFC is a standalone...its a completely self-contained replacement of the stock ECU that can either be adjusted via commander (which sort of acts as a piggy back), or completely reprogrammed with the use of a laptop PC and datalogit software...if that is not the definition of standalone...i don't know what is...

 

Good thing you guys can clear up all the misconception in this thread.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JaeOne3345 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

cheetah does it. check the pacman 242 whp all motor street car post, he said he did it on a p72 a afc. max from luckyracing also does it. yoshikatu as well. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Um.....maybe I'm a bit outta the loop, but as far as I remember, ITB's need to run off the TPS because there is no map sensor. With a P72 and a VAFC, I wouldn't think it would run right???? How did they get that to work???

At least with a Hondata, you can turn off the map sensor and run the car off the TPS. Aside from that, a VAFC has to be just about the worst tuning tool for use with something as radical as ITB's, wouldn't you guys say?

Guess anything is possible, but in all realistic terms, to maximize the output you really need a stand alone like a Hondata. And yeah, so a Hondata does act more like a decoder than a standalone, but never the less, it produces much the same results with a fraction of the cost.

LaterZ,
Aj

 

do a search on past ITB posts, Cheetah explained his reasoning on using a map on street cars. Deals with load in each gear. It works for him. You tee vacuum from each runner into a vacuum log to get a better solid signal.

On the other hand evilxkid got his car going good with tps like u said.

Different things work for different folks i guess.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tony the Tiger &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We can say Hondata "functions" like a standalone and has most features of a standalone... but I don't consider it a standalone. The word "standalone" means that it functions without the stock ECU, hence the word alone. It is not a piggyback either because it does not alter the signals before it reaches to the ECU. We'll just say the Hondata is a hacked version of the stock ECU which allows you to alter everything inside it </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks Tony, a moment there I thought I was "completely clueless." Also thanks MackSpeed-616 for the immature jabs in a good discussion, way to get off topic. Only thing is, I still wake up and have friends everyday.

 

JaeOne3345,

Dood, I'm to the point where I want to get the OER stuff now. Hehehe...I still can not figure out the proper sizing of the Vacuum box.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by len &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Thanks Tony, a moment there I thought I was "completely clueless." Also thanks MackSpeed-616 for the immature jabs in a good discussion, way to get off topic. Only thing is, I still wake up and have friends everyday. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, he was right, and you were wrong. kinda cut and drythere.

And you want OER? heh, i think you need to do more research.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Civichatch2k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Like the title says, are ITB's better then say a JG intake manifold or a skunk intake manifold. Other then the short distance for the air to travel what are the advantages/ disadvantages of the ITB set? </TD></TR></TABLE>

yes, ITBS are better than the two manifolds you mentioned above ... its a matter of at least 15-20hp @ wheels across the band more (about 10 peak hp) and a good 10-12 in torque across the band ... this is comparing a Skunk2 manfold with TWM ITBs for example .. the jg manfold is better than skunk2 but still doesn;t compare to the ITBs ...

the downside ... add more money to your fuel budget cause ripping full throttles on the ITBs will burn alot of fuel, the stock honda tank will give you an avg of 100 miles if you're lucky ... they are about even in terms of fuel comsumption for day-to-day driving, or driving on *vaccum* as i call it.

greg

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CHEETAH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

yes, ITBS are better than the two manifolds you mentioned above ... its a matter of at least 15-20hp @ wheels across the band more (about 10 peak hp) and a good 10-12 in torque across the band ... this is comparing a Skunk2 manfold with TWM ITBs for example .. the jg manfold is better than skunk2 but still doesn;t compare to the ITBs ...greg</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd say that's an extreme stereo type you just made, and not a true one at that...not every car will see gains accross the board, assuming they see gains at all.

ITB's shouldn't just be slapped onto any car, they are very specific in use. Keep in mind, the worlds fastest all motor Honda(Erick Aguilar with a 9.99 ET) still runs a GSR manifold, heavily modified for sure, but still a GSR manifold never the less, not ITB's.

ITBs for some cars may produce significant HP and or torque gains over a standard style manifold.... <U>but</U> in cars that are not heavily moded and some that are, not only will you not get the same results, but may even loose HP. That's like putting a 72mm TB on a stock all motor ITR, it's just too much air for the motor to actually utilize succesfully. As I said before, ITB's are kool and definitely have their upsides, and possible implications for use, but as it seems for a street car is more of a cool toy than a purpose driven piece.

Just my opinion....

Later,
Aj

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aaj23 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
...That's like putting a 72mm TB on a stock all motor ITR, it's just too much air for the motor to actually utilize succesfully. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Not exactly. Yes, at large throttle openings the ITBs have a capacity to flow much more air than a single TB and plenum setup. But at smaller throttle openings the smaller, individual throttle plates allow for higher velocoties. Essentially, the ITBs allow for a more precise control over airflow at all RPM, in addition to their increased capacity for flow. That's why gains from them are across the board.

Another neat thing about them is that keeping each cylinder's intake ports seperate means a reversion from one cylinder won't affect flow to the others. That's why some builders prefer to use them on engines with large camshafts.

This doesn't mean I disagree with your point. ITBs are not for everybody. They're not necessary for at least 99% of the cars owned by H-T members. But a properly-sized set wouldn't hurt a stock motor as long as everything is well tuned.