I am looking to get a large front mount for my project and I cant decide. I know the positives and negatives of both tube and fin and bar and plate. Please keep the flames out of this post. I need some real world experience.
The options that I have are the PWR 24x11x3 or Apex Skyline GT core 24x10.5x3.
I am looking for some real world comparisons. Actual AIT's would be great along with boost level and compressor size. I know both are great but I need a push in one direction or the other. I really dont care for numbers just ET's but I am sure I'll get around the 500 mark (just as a reference point.)
Any other IC suggestions would be great..
Thanks guys

 

I'd go with an XS engineering core for that kind of power. Of the two you mentioned though, the apex will be better for that power. The pwr isn't efficient at high boost. It's mainly designed for low boost w/ low pressure drop across the core, not high boost.

 

go with the XS core like this one.



I have it on my car it works great!!!

 

Holy intercooler batman...motormatrix, how much does one of those run

 

I dont have the pricing on those yet. i just took the picture today at SFP. I'll find out and repost .

 

apexi gtr core is very nice.i put it in place of my drag one and made 50whp!

 

I like my XS.

 

I have to agree w/ Tony and Mike. I just bought the XS for my car. I would go for the XS. Its also cheaper than the Apex.

 

i didnt realize you liked XS tony? Out of curiosity, why do you like them, have you ever looked inside an XS core? The welds on the fins look really nasty, half of them are melted to hell, i was extremely dissapointed the first time i looked at one. I also remember a couple years ago, Myles claimed he made a bit of power switching from XS to a spearco. Maybe the newer ones have improved? I believe XS uses griffin cores which i have always considred to sort of be junk?

I personally am still on the PWR bandwagon i really like the design of their air to air. i think youre generalization may apply more to their air to waters?

 

Please tell me that they use Griffen cores.

 

Wait, doesnt Griffen make Tube and fin? And the XS are bar and plate. Tony told me the same thing about the PWR but I am sticking with it.

 

XS uses a combination of the two, i call it fin and plate...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbotypeR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">apexi gtr core is very nice.i put it in place of my drag one and made 50whp! </TD></TR></TABLE>


everyone knows what turbos make power but no one seems to know that much about intercoolers. Is the information not out there or do people just not care?

 

Ive seen some shots of the inside of the pwr fmic and it looks decent. Does anyone have a shot of the inside of a XS or apex GT? Thanks for the good replys.

 

i deleted my XS ones by accident last year, but it looks sort of a cross between a maxrev core and a spearco...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> The pwr isn't efficient at high boost. It's mainly designed for low boost w/ low pressure drop across the core, not high boost.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Please elaborate more on this.

I kinda like mine........just installed last nigh. Thanks again to Geoff, Javier and the rest of the guys (and that cutie welder chick) over at Full-Race!
20X11X3




Modified by 93LSivic at 1:40 PM 6/28/2003

 

that car is lookin good, really really good.

 

Hey Geoff, i didn't have the digital camera Sat., but Monday i'll get pics of a pwr core, xs core, spearco core (pwr tube and fin), and an apex core. Hell, i've even got a big precision water to air i'll get some pics of. I don't think the xs core is griffen, but i could be wrong. There's no markings on it. The xs has more internal turbulators on the core and i don't see the welds you were talking about on it. Art came by the shop the Saturday and i showed him.

 

hmm i wonder if this is the same as the old ones then, does this one use cast end tanks and 20x11x3 core?

The ones i am used to seeing are still of the zig-zag fins inside (not linear like a PWR) and welded in place.

A while back myles told a good friend of mine they made power going away from a XS to a spearco. Since i have your attention, i saw a post of yours where you said that using a screen decreased power over a filter, is that true? If so i guess it could be from not enough space for laminar flow to develop but seems unlikely

 

XS actually uses apex cast endtanks on their cores. I use the 24x11x3 on all my custom kits. I've never acutally dynoed different ones back to back so I don't know how much of a difference it would actually make, but i know the xs have always made good power for me. I'm just going by what i've read here and there about intercooler design. He's a bit from "Maximum Boost":
If it were not for the turbulators, which are double edge swords here, we could make due with much less flow area, but we would experience considerably less heat transfer. The turbulators job is to see that no laminar airflow ever exists inside the core. When this is done well, each charge air molecule will get its chance to snuggle up to the core walls and exchange its heat energy with the wall. If turbulators are dense, heat exchange is better, but flow loss is greater. Conversely, no turbulators at all would yield minimal flow losses, but heat exchange would be lousy.

Like i said, I don't know how much of a difference it really makes, but it only makes sense that it would make some more power. Greddy honda intercoolers are similar to the pwr, not many turbulators and they only recommend them for up to 15psi. I'll get the pics and it'll make more sense to everyone else, I know you understand it geoff. Oh, and on the screen, I dynoed a car the other day with a 60-1 turbo and rev hard manifold. You know there's no room for a filter with that setup so he had a screen. It picked up almost 20hp by taking it off! It wasn't a bad screen either, not too fine. Apparently it causes quite a restriction for the turbo?

 

thats weird, cause i dynoed my car for arguments sake with a **** ractive filter on 3" aluminum pipe in the fender and lost 3hp. i would have never ran a filter on my car until frank from SFP dynod it with the filter and it didnt lose **** for Hp.with a k&N it might not have lost anything. since then i run filters on my car.

 

Yeah, a properly sized K&N filter will work fine, but a screen is a whole different story.

 

so a screen can be more restrictive then the filter huh??

 

I used the gtr apex core and end tanks worked fine. I was making over 500hp on my old race car.

 

PWR


MaxRev