ok.... I know that there is already a 7 page topic about LS all motor but this is somthing different. Please don't flame, i'm just trying to be creative and different.

B16a block:
-stock bottom end
LS/B20 head
-crower 62404 & valvetrain upgrade


That's just the basic theory. This is my thoughts are :
1) It would basically be a 1.6 LS motor ...stronger internals that a ZC
2) an ideal R/S ratio 1.74.
3) The stock B16 bottom end can rev up to 8.5k with out ANY issuse.
4) B16 block are less than $200! Longblocks are $450 but you can sell the head for about $300!
5) LS heads are very cheap! also the head and blocks are common from LSvtec conversions. Some shops will even give it to you for free.
6) Compression ratio would be about 10.00ish ..(i think)

LAter down the road you can always bore it to 84.5 to make it a 1.8, but still keep the 1.74 r/s ratio and


Any thoughs? this is somthing i'm going tobe doing as a experiment with extra head and block that are selling for so cheap. Yes there are better and more effiecnt ways to make a faster motor but this is just and EXPERIMENT.

 

awhhh common.... no one wants to comment?

I did post this once but didn't get that many responds, most thougt i was stupid for even thinking about wasting time.

 

Or you can buy a B16 and Toda VTEC Killers.

I don't know man. Wouldn't there be oil leak issues since it's kinda the reverse LSVTEC? I mean, the VTEC head is more efficient anyways.

 

yeah i was aware of the toda vtec killer cams but that for like hardcore all motor and has only one stage also has a very VERY lumpy idle.

*As for the vtec oil passage i could always weld it shut...right?

 

Talk about thinking outside the box! No wait, make that outside the freaking ROOM!

But what "gains" did you propose by switching to a less flowing LS head? The B16 can run up to 8.5k rpms+ because it has a head that can flow efficiently up there. Throwing an LS head on it will only help to choke it.

And if you want to do a nice P&P/5 angle valvejob on the LS head, you're already negating the *budget* buildup aspect of it. So there goes your theory...

How about keep the B16 head, and punch out the bottom end to 84mm? Best of both worlds!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98CTRCoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But what "gains" did you propose by switching to a less flowing LS head? The B16 can run up to 8.5k rpms+ because it has a head that can flow efficiently up there. Throwing an LS head on it will only help to choke it.

And if you want to do a nice P&P/5 angle valvejob on the LS head, you're already negating the *budget* buildup aspect of it. So there goes your theory...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

-what i ment about reving to 8.5k was that the rotating assembly can take it up that high and VS. the LS were reving it on a stock bottom end is pushing your luck even to 8k. Thats were the 62404-62405 would come into play. I know that in order to make the head flow better i would have to do some headwork but the theroy is "if it will work?" I know that reving is only good as long as your cams can make power up there. I'm not just trying to make a rev-monstor .. thats what the B16b is for

BTW a stock B16 head and B18 head flow charts are not that far in comparisson.

yes i could bore out the B16a to 84mm and call it a day. But this idea is for NON-Vtec motors. I'm sick of hearing people say that LS all motor is gay because of its r/s ratio...thats what brought me to this point/idea.

work with me bro... ..LOL

 

ttt

 

You would loose any bottom end you had with the vtec setup, due to the large nonvtec cam lift and overlap. B16A doesn't have much torque to begin with due to its small stroke(77mm). Lopey idle, no torque down low, but you could rev the **** out of it. Intake valves are also 2mm smaller than the vtec head. It wouldn't even compare to a stock B16A, not worth it.

 

I think more peeps should think like you!!I thought about doing this but never had the guts to do it.Your idea will work!!The buid up would be WAY cheaper..cams,valvesprings,etc.Just don't do it stock combo..IM me if you need cams(very good deal) and I have other ideas to make your combo faster..

 

Why would you start out with a B16 block and then throw an LS head on it?

It would have the torque of a b16 and no top end.

You would have no torque and you wouldn't be able to rev the **** out of the motor because the internals in the LS head aren't made to rev that high. Unless of course you upgraded the valve train, but again there goes your budget and you still got a 77 mm stroke.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Charlie Moua &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok.... I know that there is already a 7 page topic about LS all motor but this is somthing different. Please don't flame, i'm just trying to be creative and different.

B16a block:
-stock bottom end
LS/B20 head
-crower 62404 & valvetrain upgrade


That's just the basic theory. This is my thoughts are :
1) It would basically be a 1.6 LS motor ...stronger internals that a ZC
2) an ideal R/S ratio 1.74.
3) The stock B16 bottom end can rev up to 8.5k with out ANY issuse.
4) B16 block are less than $200! Longblocks are $450 but you can sell the head for about $300!
5) LS heads are very cheap! also the head and blocks are common from LSvtec conversions. Some shops will even give it to you for free.
6) Compression ratio would be about 10.00ish ..(i think)

LAter down the road you can always bore it to 84.5 to make it a 1.8, but still keep the 1.74 r/s ratio and


Any thoughs? this is somthing i'm going tobe doing as a experiment with extra head and block that are selling for so cheap. Yes there are better and more effiecnt ways to make a faster motor but this is just and EXPERIMENT.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow its nice to see a thread about this. Me and my friend have contemplated this also. Its for the extreme poor man setup, minus headwork . Like you said, b16 blocks are dirt cheap, great revability. Ls heads are dirt cheap and cams are only 400 bucks new. Sounds like a nice poorboy setup if you ever blow your b16 or ls motor. I want to see some more input on this

 

I personally have built and driven it around for 8 months before selling the car. This setup takes a bit more work than an LS Vtec but if you can get the parts for free (like I did) or dirt cheap it is basically a better ZC.
No you can't rev the **** out of these motors, cause the LS head is a very week point to begin with (springs and ball type rocker arms).
The following mods I had to make to make it work was to:
-plug the block
-bottom of intake & exhaust manifolds had to be shaved cause they interfeared with the block
-Also the head bolts are long so I had to remove 4 threads from every bolt.

With this setup: (had acces to machine shop)
-B18 Head shaved .060 P&P
-stock B16 block
-and basic bolt ons
In a 92 CX this car ran 14.9 @ 92
Thats faster than alot of B16 and LS swap civics I know of and I built it for the price of gaskets.

 

Slowpoke, Straitline and indomotor.. thanks for seeing were i'm coming from.

i'm not trying to make a super fast 13sec motor, just trying to experiment with extra parts laying around. I'm not stupid and do know my stuff about how motor, vtec, bore, r/s ration, compression, head flow dynamics ect work, I'm just trying to do somthing different.

Honestly I think i'll do this project on the side just to prove how well honda motors can be interchanged within OEM parts ect. If you blew your Bseries motor and had a LS block and Bvtec head around and it worked...won't you try it?

i just want to know what people though when who ever created LS/vtec spoke out his theory & ideas. I mean granted this is not as efficent as LS/vtec .
I'd imagen that when that idea came up people must have frowned upon it because there were other ways of making a B18 more torque rather than trying to pice a head and block together that were not ment to be togethher. Other ways that you could of made more torque was boring it or stroking it but http://most people didn't have the f...tec bandwagon. back then when it 1st came out stock B16a2 with boltons ran better times but after a while people have refined it to be a killer platform.
**this will never be as great as a Ls/vtec but its way fucken better than a freaken mini me! hahah

LOL no harm done so all comment are welcomed... even if i get flame or what not. it's cool.


Modified by Charlie Moua at 7:02 PM 6/13/2003

 

Don't think your set up is weaker than other's.Remember we're talking budget racing and thingking out side the box..I still remember when fastest n/a was FULL LS motor!!If you decide to run this set up and "built it " is still a hell alot cheaper than ls/vtec,etc.For example,you can run vtec's valves without worrying valve relief(you can vtec valves dirt cheap/free from homies that went with after maket valves).

 

i was actually gonna do that a LOOOOOONG time ago, getting a LS longblock and a B16 longblock, build a ls/vtec and make that 1.6L ls motor w/ the leftover parts, i never did though.....

 

jus a reminder to people out there, bisi did ran 10.23 ALL MOTOR! i bet if i came up with the idea of running a sohc accord motor in a crx most of u would fall over and laugh, who's laughin now eh?

embrace new idea, i'd build a 1.6l ls motor right NOW if i had the parts... freak, i'd build a 1.2 litter ls motor if i could, smaller bores, mill the block all the way for lower deck height, less stroke, less compression, etc. should be slow as hell, but dude, it'll be invinsible!

keep in mind people, building motor is about having fun too, being creative, not jus making insane hp, but that's pretty fun too!

 

 

I'm another of those "whacked" people that has thought about this. However I never went b20vtec so I never had the spare parts. I think it would be an awesome spare motor. Or a tinker motor. Test your port and polish skills on it. Or like you said, go crazy with the head and rev it to no end.
PROPS to straightline for doing it. Like he said, price of gaskets!
I just got rid of b16 block (didn't have pistons or rods) But it would have cost no more than a grand to get it in the car including tranny axles etc.. to do it. (I'm going back to single cam)

 

Originality, gotta love it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Charlie Moua &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LAter down the road you can always bore it to 84.5 to make it a 1.8, but still keep the 1.74 r/s ratio</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not quite. A B16A with stock stroke sleeved to 84.5mm is only about 1740cc.

 

how did you calculate that out? bore (times) r/s =?
just curiouse

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Charlie Moua &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how did you calculate that out? bore (times) r/s =?
just curiouse</TD></TR></TABLE>

http://www.c-speedracing.com/h...c.php

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Charlie Moua &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how did you calculate that out? bore (times) r/s =?
just curiouse</TD></TR></TABLE>

Displacement = Bore * Bore * Stroke * 3.14159265 * .25 * number of cylinders.

 

thanks bro!

BTW anyone else wanna add a comment while it's at the top

 

My personal opionion on this? Swapping an LS head on a B16A bottom end is going to be as effective in making a B16A faster as it would be for an Olympic sprinter to add smoking to his training regime.