Do use ABS when you autox?
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Do use ABS when you autox?
Like the topic says.
I'd never use it ona road course personally...makes the car feel way to unstable at such high speeds. But you dont have as much time to think ahead on an autox course, not to mention braking room.
I would think that you could get better traction by braking as hard as you can without activating the ABS, since the pads would constantly be gripping the pads rather that pulsating.
But I've spoken to several much more experienced autoxers and they all recommended that I just jam my brakes as hard as I can and as late as I can coming into a turn and basically let the ABS do all the work for me.
I'd never use it ona road course personally...makes the car feel way to unstable at such high speeds. But you dont have as much time to think ahead on an autox course, not to mention braking room.
I would think that you could get better traction by braking as hard as you can without activating the ABS, since the pads would constantly be gripping the pads rather that pulsating.
But I've spoken to several much more experienced autoxers and they all recommended that I just jam my brakes as hard as I can and as late as I can coming into a turn and basically let the ABS do all the work for me.
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From: Montreal, QC, Canada
Re: Do use ABS when you autox? (NB)
ABS will not overcome the laws of physics. By that, i mean if you just jump on the stop pedal too fast, the front tires are still unloaded and the ABS will kick-in too soon and the braking distances will increase. Even with ABS, it's better to squeeze the trigger gently before stomping on it, ie: brake-BRAAAKE! The initial step takes a fraction of a second... Think of a RWD drag car on take-off but applied to braking...
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From: Doylestown, PA
Re: Do use ABS when you autox? (jsi)
Definitly "squeeze" the brakes hard right up to the point of locking. Like JSI said, don't stomp on them but increase pressure gradually (but quickly! 
) to the point of inpending lock up. It takes some practice but is worth it in the long run. Using the ABS will increase your stopping distance.
) to the point of inpending lock up. It takes some practice but is worth it in the long run. Using the ABS will increase your stopping distance.
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From: Doylestown, PA
Re: Do use ABS when you autox? (RacerMike)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RacerMike »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Only when I drive Watkinsm3's car. I don't know how the hell you modulate those damn brakes you have on there...
Mike</TD></TR></TABLE>
Dude... I have no idea how you get your car to stop... I didn't left foot brake in your car cause I needed both feet for the brake peddle!
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
abs or not, the brake (and throttle) are not on/off switches
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly... they're more like those round dimmer swithes... turn them quickly and smoothly but don't go past the point where they click off! I think this also applies to lifting off of the brakes (or throttle). Be smooth...
...I'm gonna shut up now.
Mike</TD></TR></TABLE>
Dude... I have no idea how you get your car to stop... I didn't left foot brake in your car cause I needed both feet for the brake peddle!
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
abs or not, the brake (and throttle) are not on/off switches
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly... they're more like those round dimmer swithes... turn them quickly and smoothly but don't go past the point where they click off! I think this also applies to lifting off of the brakes (or throttle). Be smooth...
...I'm gonna shut up now.
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: Do use ABS when you autox? (Watkinsm3)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Watkinsm3 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Exactly... they're more like those round dimmer swithes... turn them quickly and smoothly but don't go past the point where they click off! I think this also applies to lifting off of the brakes (or throttle). Be smooth...
...I'm gonna shut up now.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, being smooth *off* the brake is a hard one to learn. I'm still working on that.
...I'm gonna shut up now.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, being smooth *off* the brake is a hard one to learn. I'm still working on that.
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Re: Do use ABS when you autox? (NB)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NB »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do use ABS when you autox?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Definitely. Maybe I've been spoiled by the itr’s awesome brake/abs, but if you want the shortest braking, you can't beat that abs system period. Not only does it allow you to slow the car down as fast as physically possible, but it also doesn't take away more than just a few brain cells from your driving to order your foot to press on the brake as hard as possible. On my talon that does not have abs, you always have to pay a lot more attention to braking to make sure that you're either not braking too much (lock up), or not hard enough (loose time).
Definitely. Maybe I've been spoiled by the itr’s awesome brake/abs, but if you want the shortest braking, you can't beat that abs system period. Not only does it allow you to slow the car down as fast as physically possible, but it also doesn't take away more than just a few brain cells from your driving to order your foot to press on the brake as hard as possible.
On my talon that does not have abs, you always have to pay a lot more attention to braking to make sure that you're either not braking too much (lock up), or not hard enough (loose time).
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From: Atlanta, GA
Re: Do use ABS when you autox? (NB)
You should always try to threshold brake, but don't be scared if you get into the ABS. If the system isn't really overly aggressive, ABS simply makes braking idiot proof as long as you pick your braking zone correctly.
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From: Somewhere, doing a rain dance.
Re: Do use ABS when you autox? (PseudoRealityX)
BMW/ITR ABS: Yes.
If my Sentra had ABS (it was an option), I'd pull the fuse so fast you'd think I was Sally Field receiving an Oscar.
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
Good ABS is better than no ABS.
No ABS is better than bad ABS.
If my Sentra had ABS (it was an option), I'd pull the fuse so fast you'd think I was Sally Field receiving an Oscar.
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
Good ABS is better than no ABS.
No ABS is better than bad ABS.
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: Do use ABS when you autox? (maxQ)
My sc2 uses a three channel system and if you dove into a turn and locked up a rear wheel you were f00ked. I pulled the, i mean, didnt replace the blown fuse for autocross events.
RJ
RJ
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From: Somewhere, doing a rain dance.
Re: Do use ABS when you autox? (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My sc2 uses a three channel system and if you dove into a turn and locked up a rear wheel you were f00ked. </TD></TR></TABLE>
The Sentra's is TWO channel (cross-linked in an X, the right rear locks, the front left modulates!!!). Do you know how often the inside rear is in the air?
The Sentra's is TWO channel (cross-linked in an X, the right rear locks, the front left modulates!!!). Do you know how often the inside rear is in the air?
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From: I started it
Re: (NB)
I use it in any car that has it. The ABS in Mom's MR2 Spyder (which I sometimes autocross) works great and I use the hell out of it.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NB »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so, assuming that you have enough skill to do so, would you say that you get better traction whiile abs is engaged, or while threshold braking and staying out of abs?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Tough question that I'm not sure I know the answer to. All this having been said, I almost never use it on a road course. When it rains I use the hell out of it, otherwise, it only engages if I'm trailbraking deep into a corner and the inside rear comes up. The computer of course sees the now-stopped (and up in the air) rear wheel as a lockup and engages the ABS.
BTW - personally I don't have a problem with the GS-R ABS, although I understand the ITR version is a big improvement. No idea what the difference is. Alex?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NB »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so, assuming that you have enough skill to do so, would you say that you get better traction whiile abs is engaged, or while threshold braking and staying out of abs?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Tough question that I'm not sure I know the answer to. All this having been said, I almost never use it on a road course. When it rains I use the hell out of it, otherwise, it only engages if I'm trailbraking deep into a corner and the inside rear comes up. The computer of course sees the now-stopped (and up in the air) rear wheel as a lockup and engages the ABS.
BTW - personally I don't have a problem with the GS-R ABS, although I understand the ITR version is a big improvement. No idea what the difference is. Alex?
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Re: (krshultz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krshultz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">BTW - personally I don't have a problem with the GS-R ABS, although I understand the ITR version is a big improvement. No idea what the difference is. Alex?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not just ITR ABS, 94-97 vs 98+ ABS.
* 3 channel vs 4 channel
* closed system with separate reservoir vs open system off main reservoir
* accumulator design vs all motor
* lighter
* faster CPU
* faster modulation
* faster recovery
The new design is very nice and not at all intrusive on track when you just slipping a little or one of the rears lift up. The old works well, but is more noticable and doesn't recover as fast once the wheels are no longer slipping.
Not just ITR ABS, 94-97 vs 98+ ABS.
* 3 channel vs 4 channel
* closed system with separate reservoir vs open system off main reservoir
* accumulator design vs all motor
* lighter
* faster CPU
* faster modulation
* faster recovery
The new design is very nice and not at all intrusive on track when you just slipping a little or one of the rears lift up. The old works well, but is more noticable and doesn't recover as fast once the wheels are no longer slipping.
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From: Doylestown, PA
Re: (krshultz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krshultz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
BTW - personally I don't have a problem with the GS-R ABS, although I understand the ITR version is a big improvement. No idea what the difference is. Alex?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Interesting... Personally I've never been a fan of the GS-R's ABS. If I do use it, its usually only on one turn during my first run of the day (as I'm testing the limits of traction for that surface). Other then I try to stay away from it. I have much more confidence in my threshold braking then I do leaving up to the ABS system. Just my opinion tho...
BTW - personally I don't have a problem with the GS-R ABS, although I understand the ITR version is a big improvement. No idea what the difference is. Alex?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Interesting... Personally I've never been a fan of the GS-R's ABS. If I do use it, its usually only on one turn during my first run of the day (as I'm testing the limits of traction for that surface). Other then I try to stay away from it. I have much more confidence in my threshold braking then I do leaving up to the ABS system. Just my opinion tho...
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From: Columbus, OH, USA
Re: Do use ABS when you autox? (NB)
I do not use ABS on my 92 GSR, although I'm far from being a seasoned auto-crosser. The ABS system in my car took a crap about two years ago and the upkeep to keep it working is a royal pain. Since my old car was without ABS anyhow threshold braking wasn't too hard to learn. I still lock them up, but you learn to ease out of the brake if you lock up the tires.... and also keep the steering wheel nice and open until your foot starts to ease off the brake.
As with everything in racing, it's typically much easier said than done once you understand the physics of it.
As with everything in racing, it's typically much easier said than done once you understand the physics of it.
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Re: (SPiFF)
I guess I need to find someone's 97 to drive.. on my 2000 GS-R, I find the ABS to be disconcerting when I hit a hop in pavement or some wet leaves (on the street). It continues to actuate long (over 1 sec) after the condition that caused the problem went away.. compared to my non-ABS cars that I drive over that same pavement bump, the feeling leaves me a little bit concerned.
Love it in the rain though.. but not on snow or ice.
Because I have the impression that it takes so long to "unengage", I tend to try to threshold brake (rather than ABS) at autocross in nearly all corners. Of course I am not a national level autocrosser, either...
Love it in the rain though.. but not on snow or ice.
Because I have the impression that it takes so long to "unengage", I tend to try to threshold brake (rather than ABS) at autocross in nearly all corners. Of course I am not a national level autocrosser, either...
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From: Somewhere, doing a rain dance.
Re: (MechE00)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MechE00 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I guess I need to find someone's 97 to drive.. on my 2000 GS-R, I find the ABS to be disconcerting when I hit a hop in pavement or some wet leaves (on the street). </TD></TR></TABLE>
I had the exact same experience with my 2000 GS-R. I always thought the ITR ABS was different than the GS-Rs. Maybe the ITR ABS just works better with the better brakes and the GS-R is a fallout. *shrug*
I had the exact same experience with my 2000 GS-R. I always thought the ITR ABS was different than the GS-Rs. Maybe the ITR ABS just works better with the better brakes and the GS-R is a fallout. *shrug*
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From: Doylestown, PA
Re: (maxQ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I guess I need to find someone's 97 to drive.. on my 2000 GS-R, I find the ABS to be disconcerting when I hit a hop in pavement or some wet leaves (on the street). It continues to actuate long (over 1 sec) after the condition that caused the problem went away.. compared to my non-ABS cars that I drive over that same pavement bump, the feeling leaves me a little bit concerned.
Love it in the rain though.. but not on snow or ice.
Because I have the impression that it takes so long to "unengage", I tend to try to threshold brake (rather than ABS) at autocross in nearly all corners. Of course I am not a national level autocrosser, either...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
YEP! I know EXACTLY what you mean on all of these.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by maxQ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I had the exact same experience with my 2000 GS-R. I always thought the ITR ABS was different than the GS-Rs. Maybe the ITR ABS just works better with the better brakes and the GS-R is a fallout. *shrug*
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Cool... I thought I was all alone feeling very unhappy with the ABS in that car.
I guess I need to find someone's 97 to drive.. on my 2000 GS-R, I find the ABS to be disconcerting when I hit a hop in pavement or some wet leaves (on the street). It continues to actuate long (over 1 sec) after the condition that caused the problem went away.. compared to my non-ABS cars that I drive over that same pavement bump, the feeling leaves me a little bit concerned.
Love it in the rain though.. but not on snow or ice.
Because I have the impression that it takes so long to "unengage", I tend to try to threshold brake (rather than ABS) at autocross in nearly all corners. Of course I am not a national level autocrosser, either...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
YEP! I know EXACTLY what you mean on all of these.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by maxQ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I had the exact same experience with my 2000 GS-R. I always thought the ITR ABS was different than the GS-Rs. Maybe the ITR ABS just works better with the better brakes and the GS-R is a fallout. *shrug*
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Cool... I thought I was all alone feeling very unhappy with the ABS in that car.
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From: Houston, TEXAS, USA
Re: (Watkinsm3)
Do I use ABS when autocrossing - no, my Tacoma doesn't have ABS, and I like it like that. The KDW's are a very quiet tire when autocrossing, and I can immediately tell when they start locking up...which is hardly ever since the brake system isn't up to an integra's stopping level or distance and I need to flush the brake fluid and replace it - it's like train brakes right now (no inital bite unless I stomp like mad on the brake pedal, which you don't want to do in an autocross). I did engage ABS a few time in the integra when she was actually alive two years ago, but that was when I began autocrossing, and only ran a total of 4 events before she needed to be taken off the road...
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From: Lancaster, PA, USA
ABS-Kmho vs Hoosier
Anyone else notice the difference under braking between Kumhos and hoosiers? With kumhos I never get into the ABS. With Hoosiers I get into it occasionally if the surface isn't perfectly smooth and I am not careful about sqeeeeezin. Shows how much less rotational mass the Hoosiers have.
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From: Greenville, SC, USA
Re: Do use ABS when you autox? (Hracer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hracer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Definitely. Maybe I've been spoiled by the itr’s awesome brake/abs, but if you want the shortest braking, you can't beat that abs system period. Not only does it allow you to slow the car down as fast as physically possible, but it also doesn't take away more than just a few brain cells from your driving to order your foot to press on the brake as hard as possible. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I understand that you may be referring to the ITR's system in particular, though I disagree about ABS slowing the car down as fast as physically possible. Most ABS systems (again, I haven't driven an ITR and haven't felt the system on it) don't allow for much tire slip; sooo.... if they would clamp just a little harder for a little longer, the stopping distance would be shorter. Tire wear and noise would increase, so this isn't a politically-correct choice to sell the average car driver.
ABS definitely dominates on slippery/wet surfaces
Definitely. Maybe I've been spoiled by the itr’s awesome brake/abs, but if you want the shortest braking, you can't beat that abs system period. Not only does it allow you to slow the car down as fast as physically possible, but it also doesn't take away more than just a few brain cells from your driving to order your foot to press on the brake as hard as possible.
</TD></TR></TABLE>I understand that you may be referring to the ITR's system in particular, though I disagree about ABS slowing the car down as fast as physically possible. Most ABS systems (again, I haven't driven an ITR and haven't felt the system on it) don't allow for much tire slip; sooo.... if they would clamp just a little harder for a little longer, the stopping distance would be shorter. Tire wear and noise would increase, so this isn't a politically-correct choice to sell the average car driver.
ABS definitely dominates on slippery/wet surfaces
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From: Go Gators, Fl
Re: Do use ABS when you autox? (PupaScoopa)
when you drive an ITR you will understand what it means to stop a car going 60 MPH in 100 feet. add Hawk pads, stainless lines, a master cylinder brace and dot 4 fluid and your teeth fly out of your head and hit the windshield. I often laugh at the rediculous advantage i have in the ITR with it's unreal ABS and braking ability during events. I love ride alongs that **** when i hit the brakes at the last second and kick the tail out to make a corner and a cone, all the while staying smooth baby.. smooooooth