I am in the process of building a 2.0L B18C with high compression (12.0:1), Portflow ITR topend, and Toda goodness. As most of you know, although stock ITR retainers are hard (Rockwell 62) they are not as strong as titanium. And although titanium retainers are stronger than hardened steel, they are softer (Rockwell 56) and prone the the galling effects all of us are afraid of. I was a bit worried about my Crower Ti-retainers that are in my car currently. They seem like they are galling a bit, and getting a little thin. So I decided to buy a new set and have them titanium nitride coated. Titanium Nitride increases the hardness of the titanium to Rockwell 85, much harder than even the stock ITR retainers. The coating is only 3 micron thick (.003mm) and is bonded to the metal at a molecular level, so no fear of having it chip off. It leaves the retainer with a goldish color and I'm pretty happy with the result. I am going to measure the retainers before they go in, and measure them again every couple of months to see how well the coating is working. Just thought you guys would be interested in this. Here are some pics of the retainers.










[Modified by dplatt, 7:35 AM 3/28/2003]

 

cool keep us updated

 

hrrmm... i have not heard anything good about crower

 

jus outa curiosity, how much did all of that including parts cost??

 

I paid $140 for the retainers and $3.80 to have each of them coated. I had two sets coated (had someone pitch in) because it's $100 minumum lot charge and the total for one set came out to about $61.

 

where do you go to get that done??

 

Crower Ti-retainers fckd up my engine... I would go with Toda if I had to decide again.

best luck to you though Keep us informed

 

Toda doesn't make Ti retainers

 

Sure. Sorry.
I would choose Toda/Portflow valvetrain, that`s what I mean

 

Portflow Ti retainers with a RC of 56?? Consider your self lucky. I tested my old Portflow retainers and came up with an RC of 35-40 at best!!!! Soft as hell!!!

Last fall when I my head worked on I was in a rush and had to installed a new set of Portflow retainers before I could get them TiN coated. I HIGHLY recommend people doing this with any set of Ti retainers because of the galling problems found with Ti when it comes in contact with other metals.

Were did you have them TiN coated??

BTW, they look very nice



[Modified by MadtownSi, 9:14 AM 3/27/2003]

 

Contact ***** at http://www.brycoat.com .

 

Nice Work

 

Good info...keep us updated.

 

Awesome...keep us posted!

 

Very cool, that is the place I contacted about a month ago when I started looking into different types of coatings. Small world I guess.

 

PRETTY
hope it works out good for you

 

good information! thanks!

 

thanks for the info

 

sounds good...

what exactly is "galling"?

also, if you harden the surface of one thing(in this case the retainers), wouldnt that in turn put more wear on anything else that comes in contact with it, such as the springs? kinda like the theory every action has an equal and opposite reaction kinda thing, if you understand what Im trying to say. Im currently running the crower set up and I keep hearing bad things about them, and its starting to worry me.

 

Galling (the websters definition)-to fret and wear away by friction.

And as far as wearing of the springs goes, not an issue. The TiN treated titanium is not going to gall the hardened steel coils of your valve springs. Just not going to happen. Basically by treating the ti-retainers I keep the strength properties of the titanium, and add the hardness properties (plus some) of the stock retainers.

I considered using stock ITR retainers but I've seen those snap in half. Galling isn't an issue with the stock retainers. I know most of you know this, but I'm just clarifying for those that don't.

I think this will do the trick, and $60 is not a lot of money for the extra insurance. It may eliminate the galling all together. Time will tell the tale. I'll keep you all updated. Thanks for the compliments, and you're welcome for the info!


[Modified by dplatt, 11:03 AM 3/27/2003]

 

Is there some thing like this avalible for the valve springs?

 

keep us posted !

 

since you seem to know a lot about retainers, could you please answer the question, why Ti retainers break more often than stock retainers..
Some people say, you should replace Ti retainers every 20k or you`re going risk they break.

Is it because they are more soft ? Confuses me...

 

Ti retainers don't break from metal fatigue, they wear thin from galling (frictional wear) and the outer spring pops through the ti-retainer where it has made it super thin. Stock retainers on the other hand break from metal fatigue (as in break in half). I've seen it happen on more than a few cars. But if you find me a picture of a titanium retainer broken in half, I'll retract my statement and eat my words. But most people see failure from galling.

 

that sounds like an idea, i don't really wanna take my retainers out do coat them but i should check on them huh? How many miles should i wait before i check them again? I had my valvetrain installed about 25k ago.