With the Daytona 500 just around the corner, it appears the "good stuff" on Speed is coming to an end. Looks like starting tomorrow, it looks to be 24 hr/day NASCRAP. Sure, they'll throw in an occasional American Muscle Car (like I care) and High Rev Tuners (like I care), but I doubt we'll see anymore British, German or Austrialian touring car races again until after the NASCRAP season

Just as well. I work too much and will be spending the majority of my weekends at the track beginning next weekend...

 

yeah, fawk it.
I'm turning my cable box tomorrow....
no use for cable without the good programming that WAS on speed channel
seriously.
but now maybe I'll spend more time on my car instead of being a couch potato


[Modified by owen_the_soyboy, 1:39 PM 2/9/2003]

 

WHen does the F1 season start (yeah I guess I could look it up), and has Speed TV secured the broadcast rights for the US yet?

 

IMO I hope they don't I would rather watch it on another network. I would then eliminate my subscription to "Speed" channel and save some money.

 

you guys whine a lot about Speed Channel, Daytona is the biggest racing event every year, it's not stupid, its called marketing, included in their Daytona coverage has also been the Grand Am Cup 250 and other racing events held at that track

I guess Christian Fittapaldi is just another backwoods redneck driver now that he is in NASCAR? come on guys, NASCAR's sanctioning body may need some work but it is still racing and deserves our support as enthusiast's and fans of "racing"

I sometimes get the impression that we think we are some elite group of priviledged people because we drive on real race tracks, some of us in real race cars

oh yeah, now that the "Hyperfest" is sponsored by Pep Boys I wouldn't be suprised to see Hi-Rev Tuners at an ECHC event, I think that is kinda cool if you ask me

 

wErd!!! pep boys at echc events woooo hooooo

 

I was thinking more along the lines of sponsors being seen on TV by an admittly large market

 

Now he is.

I don't pay for nascar tv I pay for speed tv regardless of how big nascar is and yes it is racing I'm not ready to support nascar this and nascar that.

You can tell even nascar gets bored with oval racing as half the nascar shows on speed aren't even races. They must bring out every geezer and interview him for 1/2 hr and have him tell the viewers how it was like in the good ol days.

 

Yeah I agree, there's not point in watching Speed until maybe (hopefully!) after the daytona race.

To whoever mentioned Christian Fittapaldi, well I never liked that guy anyway, so I couldn't care less what he races.

And for the commentators repeating every 10 seconds "WOAW they are THREE wide!!" and the resulting millions of fans thinking that this is the best *racing* on earth, well.... just open up another beer and keep repeating that to yourself if it makes you happy hearing it.

If you think that simple laws of physics are called good racing, then fine. But personally, I want to see the drivers play a MUCH larger part in the outcome of an oval race. Right now, qualifying is basically a contest of the best motors and aero packages, since they are always flat out anyway and NOT at the limit of adhesion through those daytona oval turns. Heck, I even heard Joe Nemechek (sp?) admit something like this in a TV interview yesterday! lol While the race, they are a contest of mostly drafting and nothing else. If you don't buy this, then place your favorite Winston Cup driver in a field of ARCA drivers/cars and let em race. You'll quickly notice that the supposedly "better" driver will be somewhere there in the pack. Might I ask how come this "better" driver is not able to out drive those ACRA guys and pull a lead?? Simple! His advancement up through the field will be a direct result of only 1 thing, whether he was able to draft someone or not. Once he's in front, some other driver will have his turn at drafting by him. On super speedways such as daytona, late braking and pushing the limit in the corners does NOT exist. What you do see are cars going WOT for 500 miles and as a result, 3 wide since *hopefully* all of the cars should have similar accelerations and terminal speeds as all the others in the pack. I could bet you'd see the same "great racing" around daytona as you would see if you let these guys race on a 500 mile long straight line.

Short ovals are different and I much prefer to see those if I would be forced to watch oval racing. At least there, the drivers have to judge when to brake and just how fast they can take each turn. Still, they only have 2 turns to learn on the whole track, so I think it gets rather boring quickly. And unfortunately, crash pile ups are good to keep it "exciting".

Anyway, to each his/her own. But I can voice my opinion as many times as I want. And I would gladly support nascar racing if it weren't for the fact that nascar is what drains just about ALL the motorsports money in this country. Then again, a good SHOW always does sell! But I just can't stop laughing when I hear the commentators pointing out every 15 seconds just how GREAT racing this is because they are 3 wide. lol

 

seems to me that they are re-runing the Grand Am Cup race right now on Speed

you guys look way too far into it, like we are breaking down some great racing barrier by pointing out NASCAR's fallacies

most of the watching public would not understand the comlexties of road racing, car setups, classing, etc.
it is real easy to understand, "they are 3 wide in turn 4 at 190 mph" and recognize your favorite car or driver

I am challenging anyone to put it on the line and drive 500 miles at 190 mph, millimeters off someone else's bumper, just like I would challenge any NASCAR fan to drive 130 mph on a track like VIR if they thought road racing was stupid

SpeedTV is a business, NASCAR is the hottest thing in sports right now, if ECHC was as popular they would televise it too

I guess what it boils down to is that NASCAR and its fans are inferior to us "real" race car drivers and wannabe's

 

Road racing snobery is a great thing. It helps maintain this discipline's amateur status, my making it a commercially impossible. It keeps the riff-raff out of the pits, since drivers need to be self-funding - working at real jobs rather than in the dirty racing business. It makes it possible to put the companies that drivers (or our fathers) own on the cars, rather than those bothersome consumer products on which millions get spent advertising every year. It relieves us of the anguish of deciding whether to race for a living and cuts spectator traffic to a minimum at our events. It allows us to have 47 classes on the track in a weekend, rewarding the REAL fan who is more interested in the difference between a "limited-prep" EP car and a "full prep" EP car, than in who is ahead on the track. It assures that our insurance costs are appropriately high, by avoiding good economies of scale. It assures that the upper levels of the discipline are even more exclusive, guaranteeing that nobody will sneak in on driving skill alone. Hell, yeah - an excellent deal.

K

 

yeah, that's a lot harder then driving a 750kg sports proto-type for 24 hours, slowing in some corners to a mere 60mph and 3 g's of cornering force, then accelerating to over 200mph on the straights, only to pull 1.5 g's under braking to get her back down to 75mph for the next 3+ g corner.

unfortunatley, nascar markets to the masses, and as we all know, the masses are complete and utter morons. for me it isn't necessarily that they drive in a circle all day, it's that they don't do it in the rain. (thus, i don't like drag racing either. or most any sport that gets post-poned for rain.) and don't get confused that nascar doesn't run in the rain because it is unsafe. they don't run in the rain because the _fans_ don't like it. i hold great disdain for anything that sells itself out for more fans.

nate-who's just rambling about his meaningless opinions, afterall, he doesn't even have cable.

 

I enjoyed that, Kirk. Nice counterpoint.

 

Whether NASCAR markets to the masses or whatever-they do put on a heck of a show for those interested in that form of competition. EVER drive one of those things-I have. It is areal rush at Pocono and Charlotte to stomp on the go pedal and run near the wall. It is also a great way for our crowd to learn the line on the oval at those tracks-as that is part of the "long road course" configuration. Helped me a bunch at Pocono. Next supertrack for us is Talladega this fall for a school there. As for the "aero package and engine thing-NASCAR by its own admission has legislated something resembling an effort to create a formula where driving and pit strategy do have an effect-witness the BUD Shootout. As to adhesion and 3 wide-ever done it at 150+? I have done it 2 wide at Charlotte in a school-no radio and limited visibility-and the cars will stick if you stay where you are supposed to be.

Oh for those who think that "roundy racing" does not transfer to us-go run at Watkins Glen and think very carefully. Our cars weigh (on average) 1000 pounds less and can be very tempermental too. Those guys have to manhandle their machines, but in a very different way. I think it takes great skill to move from a super docile formula car (regardless of type) to a CUP machine (welcome CF). Going from one of those to a Prelude or CRX is also an interesting experience.

Do I really care about F1. Not like I used to when drivers were really in control of the car. Do I enjoy the coverage of a computer controlled freight train at 200mph-NO. At least NASCAR offers a higher degree of unpredictability as to winning each week. Yeh-I'm defending a truly American form of motorsport. Then again I would like to see more of the endurance races covered live. I'd also like to see more drivers like Kyle Petty mount serious efforts and not in a Porsche-for him a Viper would be very cool. Dale Jr should also (remember his father) and do the same with a Corvette. Sadly, these pro drivers are committed to the type of racing that pays their bills and not to a form that is secondary.

Speed channel has the rights to F1 and is showing the Supercar series along with the European trucks-which are real truck bodies (sort of) w/5th wheels. I have no idea how those guys sit so high and control the things on a road couse-but it is exciting racing. SPEED is out there doing the road racing crowd justice. They even cover the 24 hour for most of the race-and gave a good account of the time while off-air.

This is the biggest week in Daytona type racing, just like the month of May belongs to the IRL (formerly USAC's domain) at Indy. Broadcasters pay for the rights and have to do deals for sponsors and whatnot-racing for them is also not cheap. It takes a huge number of people to present even 1 day of coverage. These folks are in it for a profit too and will maximize the value.

So if you don't like NASCAR, too bad. The technical innovations that have come from people like Smokey Yunick, Banjo Mathews (I'm really going back in time), Richard Petty (air vents in helmets), communications equipment, fire suppression devices, etc. makes that form of motorsport valuable to all of us who participate.

Did everyone tune into the Dakar Rally coverage-of course not. Do you enjoy alky burning stadium motorcycle racing from Europe-it is real different and difficult. How about some of the other events-for a month we get to see tape delayed, if not live the SCCA national championships decided. I would like a bit of better commentating-but it is amateur racing and the coverage overall is very good indeed.
Be thankful that we now have so many kinds of racing covered-even if each does not get as much airtime as you like.

My humble presentation -



[Modified by jc836, 7:15 PM 2/9/2003]

 

I was not disputing that fact, several NASCAR boys particapate in those races

my arguement is how the amatuer racing crowd here looks down their noses at NASCAR like we are so much better, when in reality we are all just race car drivers who would love to get paid millions to drive a car
I love racing, I get goosebumps wether its F1 or ARCA, it makes no difference to me, I do not think NASCAR fans are bumbling redneck idiots, I just believe when you have millions upon millions of fans, and cater to a certain lifestyle you get a larger variety of fans.

Everyone is entilted to their opinion, and I am not knocking anyone for that, enjoy it for what it is and do not look any further into it

 

I am getting this funny visual of college basketball players upset about Pro games being televised and the CBA and WNBA not getting their just "airtime."

Hey, if Club/National/Pro racing spoke to as large of an tv watching audience as NASCAR did, believe me, it would be on TV and Tide and Viagra would be calling a lot of you guys up Hell, I am glad *any* form of motorsport gets a lot of coverage - its not like we're into badminton and have to explain for hours our hobby.

I know when I tell someone I race and they ask "like Nascar?" and I say, "nah, not at that level, amateur racing on road courses ... its a little different but some of the same principles apply ..." I sure seem to garner a lot more interest than if I were to say "nah, Nascar sucks, I'm into ..."

Personally I am not too into watching Nascar races but qualifying is cool as hell and I do watch that whenever possible. Then again, I prefer watching college basketball too LOL

 

Yeah, technical innovations like pushrods and carbeurators! and yes, i did tune in for the Dakker Rally!

 

Morgan. Have a beer and relax bud

It's not that I dislike NASCAR (I do really, except for the races at the Glen and Sears Point). It's that it's constant bombardment beginning right about now until October. Speed plays plenty of boat stuff that I could care less about. It's not 24hrs a day though. And they don't replay a boat race from the shores of Lake Michigan from 1989 either.

If it wasn't 24/7 NASCRAP and they interjected the occasional BTCC, German touring car, or Austrailina V8 Supercar race I'd be a happy camper. But they save all that stuff to play after the NASCAR season.

Variety. Is it too much to ask for? If that makes me an elitist, then so be it.

 

Isn't it WRC and Sportscar season now though - I know they are showing those races. It's just that now is the startup of roundy-round-Yeehaw-Billy-Bob with 4-on-the-floor and product-advertising-on-cars-with-commercials-too (viagra anyone?Chevy anyone?) season... So that's what will fill the airwaves for a few weeks - major American Lemans and GrandAM series races (24 Hours of Lemans too) will be seen.

And yall pay extra for SpeedChannel?!?! It should be part of the standard Direct TV Satellite package...Redo your satellite package if you are paying extra just for SpeedChannel.

Vracer111, who didn't watch any Speedchannel this weekend but this afternoon did completely gut the hood of his to be racecar and cut holes in it for an air extraction vent to be riveted in the rear center section... the hood is very, very light now

 

I personally liked Fittipaldi's comment the other day. He was asked something along the lines of how does driving a Winston Cup Car differ than an Indy/Cart race car. He said that w/ the Open Wheel cars, its easy, you just turn the wheel and push the gas/brake pedal, car does whatever you want it to do. Winston Cup Cars, you have to work at it, 75% of it is mental just keeping the car online and getting it around the track.


I personally, like all forms of racing, and does get bored most of the time watching all form of racing as well, doesn't matter which type it is.

 

I am going to guess here that a lot of the whiners aren't old enough to remember a time when there was NO coverage of WRC, touring cars, Dakar, or pretty much any of the other "fringe" motorsports. SPEED has showed touring cars from Macao, rallycross from England, F3000 from all over the world, a bunch of GT series from around the globe - even freakin' Bathurst which is without a doubt the gnarliest road racing circuit in the world.

BS (Before SPEED, like in the 1980s) we used to rent the movie "LeMans" on the weekend it was running, then wait a month for Autosport to make it to the news stands, so we could even find out who won. We could only get F1 if we were lucky enough to get the CBC on our new-fangled cable systems.

In short - if you don't like all of the NASCAR coverage, turn SPEED off altogether, and live without any of the cool stuff. Wah.

K

 

qoute:

NASCAR's sanctioning body may need some work but it is still racing and deserves our support as enthusiast's and fans of "racing"

PLEASE. Up until a year ago, we had a safe refuge from the roundy-round marketing orgy that used to be a sport; that refuge WAS Speedvision, and now the good 'ole boys have taken that too. I used to enjoy NASCAR, and I still appreciate the skill most of the drivers have to hustle those 3,500 lb pigs around. I'm just tired of getting NASCARED to death! I'm turned off by NASCAR because it used to be a sport for brave, highly competitive men that would race their ***** off if someone would just pay their tire bill. Now it is all about entertainment, business jets and 1/2 million dollar motorhomes. I'm sick of it because when you say "racing", everyone assumes that you mean "stock car on an oval". "Huh? you race a Honda on a road course?" I'm tired of people who have done that silly amusement park ride called "The Richard Petty Driving Experience" telling me that they have been to "racing school". (They wouldn't know an apex they tripped over one.)

Granted, you've got to hand it to the NASCAR cartel, they have done a heck of a job creating this money machine. But to tell me that I have to join the thousands of morons that follow the sport... not gonna happen bud! There's a good reason that fewer people pay to see road races and millions pay to see NASCAR. Morons are abundant; people that appreciate the finer points of just about anything are a smaller group !

 

Trackrat makes a good point.

When someone (either not mainly into autoracing or a NASCAR fan) asks you what sport you like and you say "I enjoy auto racing", what is there usual response? "Oh, you like NASCAR!" I have yet to have anyone say anything different than "You like NASCAR!"... And then they have this weird look on their face which is like "What other exciting auto racing could there be?"

I don't really like NASCAR, but it is still autoracing and I can watch it if I absolutely have too (like in someones house who thinks when you say auto racing that it means NASCAR) - even if it has turned into something dramatically different than it was in the last 20 years.

But if I was on a date and I asked my date what kind of sports she liked and she replied with "Oh, I'm a NASCAR fan!" or "NASCAR is my favorite racing series." then I would have to break it to her that our relationship probably wouldn't make it...

P.S. And with this post I make a Small Flush post count! COOL!


[Modified by Vracer111, 8:57 AM 2/10/2003]

 

Here, here!

 

but essentailly isn't the fact that NASCAR is so widely promoted to the public on all levels the reason for it's popularity, not becuase they average american has weighed the pros and cons of oval racing to roadcourse racing?

I am not claiming any of you guys are not true racing fans, that would be far from the truth, but as real enthusiasts shouldn't we make the effort to educate those not fortunate enough to be in our position on all aspects of racing beyond NASCAR? don't they call that being an ambassador for your sport?

another note I will make, in these tough times in our world NASCAR helps people "feel" american, and frankly probably creates employment for thousands if not tens of thousands blue-collar Americans, I know that is not what we are discussing here but it is a valid point

NASCAR is easy to understand and sell to the average american, the faces and names are familiar, you feel like you are part of the "NASCAR family" in a sense, if the good ole' boy attitude and persona is what puts a sour taste in your mouth about it then fine, but is a pretty petty (no pun intended) reason to dislike something