I want to clear up some things up on the Garrett 4-bolt Vs. the Ford style 5 bolt that most turbo companies like Precision, Turbonetics and Innovative use. In this thread I would like to show you how the 4 bolt differs from the Ford style 5 bolt and show you how the offset changes some things. I will also talk about what manifolds work best with what style of turbo. As we have seen very recently with people having to cut and shave alot off the blocks just to get thier turbo to work.

The turbine housing players
-Garret .48 A/R 4 Bolt with InlinePRO manifold
-Precision .63 A/R 5-Bolt InlinePRO manifold

Here we have picture of my car running the InlinePro manifold and a Precision turbo that has a 5 bolt Ford style turbine. As you can see there is alot of clearances between the compressor housing and the block


Now here is the same exact set up with the Garrett 4-bolt housing and the inlinePRO manifold.


Now lets look at to why this happens. First lets look at a bird'd eye view of both turbine housings. As you can see below, the Garrett's 4-Bolt offset is very different from the Ford style 5-bolt. The Garrett 4-bolt pushes the entire CHRA(Compressor Housing Rotating Assembly) towards the block thus pushing the entire compressor into the block. This is one of the causes of people having to shave off and cut so much off of their block.


Now the picture below shows the Garret's 4-bolt thickness at around 2.84". This will also push the CHRA and compressor into the block:


Now the 5-bolt at 2.59":


Not only is the offset different, but lets look how deep the CHRA is mounted in the housings. By looking at this picture you can see the turbine sits deep in the turbine housing. Its sits .875" deep from the flange.


Here is the 5 bolt with a shallow turbine at .406" deep vs the 4 bolt at .875 deep.


So as you can see using the 4-bolt is kind of a problem. So what are your options? Your cheapest option is to change out the 4-bolt into a 5-bolt. Your next option is to sell the entire 4-bolt turbo and buy one from me. jk.(need some humor).

If you are running a Max-rev manifold you will be fine running the 4-bolt because that manifold was designed off the Garrett 4-bolt. If you use Rev-hard/ InlinePRO you will have to cut and shave a lot off. Im not sure about drag. I do recall dustin not being able to use the max-rev manifold with the 5-bolt and use stock fans and this is why.

Hope this helps some.

art

 

whoa, that was in-depth. nice tech info.

 

That was great tech info...!!! yeah 5 bolt is more of a common turbo with more parts made for the 5 bolts. Anyone need any turbos..??

 

Quality post Art , its finally time to have cleared up this issue thats been going around with certain manifolds and turbos not fitting properly with your blocks.

I also wanted to add that some of you guys know that I had to cut the crap out of my block to be able to fit a Garrett (4 bolt) 60-1 on my max-rev manifold, now all I wanted to mension is that max-rev did fix this problem and now all you have to do is cut some of the webbing off and get rid of the notch to be able to fit the 60-1 on. Besides that point I'm pritty sure that any t3/t4 garrett will fit the max-rev manifold no problem with the usuall trim points..

Adi

 

Very nice post Art, a friend of mine was curious about a few of the measurements also ( he is right next to me).. knowledge is power...

 

Glad I could help.

art

 

good info!

 

now there is some good documentation on this..so hopefully people will use the search and get some info on it in the future.
in my case.. im even diff as i was using a gt30 turbo..and it would actually fit my car...BUT damn clutch master cylinder is in the way

 

What about if your using a full race manifold,will you have to shave anything for the 4-bolt?

 

Hrmm makes me think now... I am going to be buying my turbo soon maybe I should get the 5 bolt. I have a maxrev manifold so i don't think clearnece will be the problem. But my downpipe i have is for a 5bolt turbo. I was gonna get a turbo off of cheapturbo.com and get a new flange for it but if you can get me a good price on a 5 bolt I may be in. I need a GARRETT T3/TO4E 57 TRIM stage 3 wheel W/ .63 A/R. Or atleast something simular for my JDM h22a. Can you email me some prices bdawes@cogeco.ca

Thanks for the help

 

Geoff has told me that he made the manifold with the 5-bolt and sent one to a customer. The customer said that he couldnt get his to fit. Why? Because he had a 4-bolt. Geoff was forced to use Turbonetics only because of the 5-bolt turbine housing and he hated it. But now that I provide him with Precision turbo for his great turbo kits, he as the best of both worlds. A great turbo with a great manifold.

This is kind of a hard choice to make. I say what ever is cheapest for you wallet. See how much a downpipe would cost for the 4-bolt. I can get you a Precison turbo, but if you already have a turbo then use what you have.

art

 

So i have a 4bolt garret turbo and im getting a full race mani.Will i still have problems making it fit without grinding.


[Modified by J2turbo21, 9:42 AM 2/1/2003]

 

I think Geoff would be the best to answer that.

art

 

actually art that is incorrect. The customer who i made that manifold that didnt fit, was for a DSM. The B series will accept any turbo.

I ran turbonetics becuase of the stage 5 option, but i will more than likely be using precision from this point on. I have an inclination to try a holset, but am leaning more towards precision.

 

it will easily fit without any grinding.

 

ahh, got ya!

 

So you didn't have to shave any of your block Art? Looks like a great fit.

 

Nope. that is why I love the off set of the 5-bolt.

art

 

But guess what Artie, My turbo is bigger than yours!!!


honestly, ive been pretty quiet w/ my new setup, its now 719 am saturday morning....i finally just got the air filter on my car i need sleepy..... ill make a post and give everyone the idea of how much it sucked to be me for my turbo install. ill take some pics as soon as i clean up my damn car


P.S. my freakin 4 bolt t04e spools just as fast if not faster than my old t04b.....go figure

 

Art is very correct in his post. The reason garrett is running 4bolt turbine housings is for turbos that are not using an internal wastegate. The ford style turbine has more space on the flange - were the internal wastegate would be. Garrett is making their 4bolt specifically for those that are using an internal wastegate. Companies like Precision just take the 5bolt flange, cover up the wg port and voila. If Garrett is going to continually make these 4bolt flanges, I'd just yell at them and tell them to shave their flanges down to the 5bolt specs. Furthermore, either there's going to be a new design of manifolds, or Garrett's going to loose some business from the B-series Honda Boosters.

..IMO

 

nice job art
that's why my maxrev manifold didn't work that well with my turbonetics turbo...
i had to run a pusher fan..

 

well garret doesnt really listen to us.
so WE (companies) are going to have to change the designs and or come out with new ones!

 

nice info art

 

Yep, well that would explain why I had to shave off the block with my 4 bolt on my revhard manifold on my h22 and my friend with a fmax and the 5 bolt didn't have to!!!

 

Nice right up art.

more very usefull information from Arturbo ind.

Rob