Hey I was wondering what the deal was on the NASA event in Feb.(VIR Full). Is NASA still doing the 20 min. sessions? 3 sessions a day? Or has the seat time increased at all? I really want to get on track again, but im not sure I want to chance getting 15 min sessions....i mean 20 min. sessions

 

I haven't heard, but don't expect that things will have changed from last year.

I sent you an IM with a possible alternative.

 

i'm going (hopefully) to this event as well. i didnt know the sessions where gonna be short. oh well.
-spenc

 

It will be plenty of time, trust me

 

20 min on VIR Full seems really short... get stuck in those damn trains and your Flocked.

 

If you get stuck in a train then that person needs to be pulled off track, VIR's backstraight is like 4500 ft., and front straight is almost half a mile, alot of passing can be done here. Plus it is an extremely fast course, not to many slow vehicles

 

On the other hand, at 2:00+ per lap, do you really think 20 minutes is enough? By the time you pit out and run (possibly under caution) for 1 or two laps to ge thte tires up to temp, then go all out, then get the checkered, you might be lucky to get 7 laps in at speed.

Scott

 

20 minutes at a time is more than enough for most students. Beyond that, dehydration and fatigue begin to take a toll on concentration. Driving at the limit is hard work.

My only complaint with NASA is they tend to pack too many things into a weekend. If anything goes wrong, track time can be cut significantly (they try to cut the time out of the offending groups next session, but sometimes that is not enough). That, and the Adv/Inst group always seems to be scheduled last on Sunday - I usually have to skip it so I can get home at a reasonable hour.

 

what is the weather gonna be, I mean will there be a chance to see snow in VIR at late Feb (say from the past few years) ?

And , if it does. What is NASA's policy ?

 

actually i spent over 3 hours one day on track at vir full .... and to be honest....it wasn't enough time!!!

 

I have been to VIR twice both times I had 30 min. sessions if I go out for a 20 min session I think I would feel ripped off. Crack monkey should remember he was my instructor the first time. I have only done one nasa event at Summit Point and my session was cut way short due to oil from like T10- T5 down the whole front straight. They ran out of cat litter cleaning all that **** up and we got like 10 min on track last session of the last day. That is the worst session to get screwed out of.

 

There seems to be some give and take with every group.

I was at your last VIR event I believe and I can say from experience that 50+ cars on VIR Full is a nightmare. Sessions may not have been cut (much), but I know we ran 3+ opening laps under yellow on multiple occasions. I'm told that that was not the event to judge that group by, but didn't get the chance to run another event with them.

This coming year, I'm hoping to try more groups. THSCC is running 5 events and I think I've been talked into seeing what Chin Motorsports is all about.

Anyway... I know things come up sometimes that cannot be anticipated. I do, however, think that there's something to be said for getting what you paid for. You don't accept half a cheeseburger at McDonalds or go to see a movie that's cut off 2/3rds of the way through. When track time is costing you $2.5 per minute or more, it simply is a big deal when $12.5 is taken from you every session.

I do believe this situation will eventually be resolved, but in a time of increasing demand on a limited resource, it could be a while.


[edit] I'll try to make this my last rant regarding this issue.


[Modified by JeffS, 2:53 AM 12/12/2002]

 

NASA could just cut off HPDE's and run a dedicated race series like SCCA then you can go pay more for track time at other places.

This is the whole problem that arrises with track driving, impatience. You are not even on track and you are already complaining about time. I admit there are some times that they cut sessions, but lately it has been due to in large part to the SCCS guys. You do know that the first sessions to get cut are the instructors sessions, then it trickles down. Now as you get faster and driving more on the edge you will find 20 minutes will exhaust you, and yes fatigue will set in.

Beginner and Intermediate sessions are for learning, you are not racers, take the oppurtunity to learn the line, car control, etc. When you make it to advanced you will understand 20 minutes is enough time. If you want some space pull in the pits and ask for it. If you do not like having sessions cut then go out on track and run in oil on the track, ball your car up, and waste everyone elses time.

Morgan - who does not like being on track with people who are impatient

 

but that's understandable for you

 

Yea... that's the politically correct answer.

 

Most of the time the School sessions are not shortened belive or not but what you have to remember is the time for that sessions is the time that that you pull out on track.. It does not start with the green flag, but as soon as you follow Tony out onto the course.

 

THSCC is my home car club, and while I have not done a track event with them Mark V. runs a great program.
This will allow everyone once again to have 2 weekends back to back at VIR. This NASA event will be differnt than other because insted of many race groups and races going on during the event there is jsut going to be the enduro, which is one race group and one race, which if it was like last year the Race will be on sunday Morning.

 

I am in favor of cheap track time, don't get me wrong. I guess I should have just stayed out of that arguement. However NASA offers a quality HPDE like many others also do. I have worked a variety of events where sessions were 30-45 minutes long 4 times a day. Many times during the last 10-15 minutes of the session there would be only 2 or 3 cars on track. I think time, whatever duration, whatever speed, can be used wisely to learn and become faster.

 

Ive run FATT's at summit and often sit out the last session or use it do ride with an instructor. Its not uncommon to see the last session rather empty.

 

A final post for clarification.

I am not trying to establish a position for or against anyone. As someone who has only run 7 events, and in only one season, I don't claim to have the experience to accurately compare different organization's offerings. From this comes my desire to experience a wider variety of organizers.

This year, I ran with:

NASA - 5 events
Carguys - 1 event
THSCC - 2 events

I can hardly be considered anti-NASA after spending around $1400 with them.

I imagine the handful of you who know me have an idea what I mean with this. For everyone else, I often come off as more out-of-control that I actually am. At some point in the forseeable future I could be applying for a comp license with NASA so the last thing I want to do is ostracize myself. That does not mean though that you won't find me standing around bitching if a session is mysteriously cut short... and I'll bet many of you will be doing the exact same thing.

 

even if it was cut short for your safety?

 

Bingo, I know when I was a intermediate student, I wanted all the track time I could get.. i stayed out every session as long as I could.. Now, I drive probably 1/3 as much on track (in minutes) then I used to, and get exhausted so much sooner, because I am using all my available energy to go 10/10ths as fast as I can around the track.. I'll never forget my first race at CMP, I was cottonmouth after 2 laps, and I drank water all day...

Again, Very true.. I have "grown up" with NASA system, starting from my first track event as beginner, all the way to get my competition licence, and to race in the ECHC.. What other organization will do that? Your getting your money's worth, you just might not be able to tell right now.

 

So the way I understand it is until you get to a certain level of driving, track time is only going to work you up to being fatigued. If I can't fatigue myself Im not concentrating hard enough? I drive the full 30 min every session of the day. I am tired when I leave, but most of us on here probably arent as fast as the more advanced drivers and racers. The higher level drivers would have more to think about because they know where they are supposed to be and what they are supposed to be doing exactly. Beginners and intermediate drivers dont have to work on such tedious tasks. We are still learning the basics. I want to learn how to drive and be as fast as I can be thats why the longer session turns me on. It gives me more time to learn new things to help me be a better faster driver. If I end up being fatigued I can give up that time, but with a short session normally I dont think people are going to pull in early. If they do then the time was sufficient. I think most people would rather have to much time then not enough.

 

Eh, no. You'll still be fatigued after 20 minutes. You just won't be as aware of it as you should be. 3x20 minutes sessions is pretty much the industry standard for a day at the track. Some offer 4x20. Some offer 3x30. It varies. Just make sure the organization gives you all the promised time (the only valid excuse in my book is weather related issues, clubs should schedule some 'down time' into an event b/c **** always does happen).

 

I dont know how to be more aware of my fatigue, but it seems like it would be a good thing to know.