You sure on the stock rates? I'm no expert, but I called apex-i usa and that's what they told me...

I didn't understand your sentence about "615's in the rear..." being too much for the street...

Currently I have the stock itr swaybars, but will probably add at the very least the mugen 26mm swaybar, and a rear tower bar as well...

they did mention something about the 9" spring being able to compress more than the 8" spring and so on... I dunno how this will affect handling though...

Are the shocks rebuildable/ upgradable, btw?

Yes, this is definitely what they put on my car, 11K/5K. I probably called them 3 times about it because I couldnt believe they would put these kind of rates on these coilovers. But this is what most of the "JDM" manuf. put on their stuff...

Sorry for the confusion, I did the conversion. Multiply your K/mm times 55.88 to get the lbs/in (11K *55.88) = 615lbs/in. So my setup: 450f/615r, ITR rear antisway bar with adjustable end links to full stiff, full interior, 205/50-15 Azenis tires, AEM intake, RSR headers, 98 ITR exhaust.

I said the 615 are a the limit of being too much spring rate to drive on the street.

Currently I have the stock itr swaybars, but will probably add at the very least the mugen 26mm swaybar, and a rear tower bar as well...

If the front antisway bar on the ITR is bigger than the GSR bar, then put the GSR bar back on. If you talk to most any real racer, they will tell you that bigger antisway bars are a band-aid approach to adjusting the handling of a car. Keeping this in mind: keep the ITR rear bar, its plenty! Since you are going to adjust the handling of the car using the springs, go with this rule of thumb for the GSR: 2f/3r ratio. For instance: 400f/600r spring rates will be 2/3 ratio. I have had many others comment that this is a great setup for someone who can drive with oversteer. This is also a great ratio on the GSR with a ITR rear antisway bar.

This does not matter in your case because of the spring rates your using in the rear. Keep in mind the rates they used in the rear on the 9” spring are 5k or 280lbs/in. In the back of the GSR, you are not going to compress that spring very far if you use 450+.

Yes, I recall them telling me that the dampers are rebuildable, revalvable, and they can hold up to around 1000lbs springs. You should call them again and ask them though and let me know.

Anyway, I must clarify that this is for my '00 itR. I think the chassis differences should be almost negligible with GSR (except for the swaybars),

and agree with you that somewhere between 2/3 and 1/1 would be ideal for me. I'd like 2/3 ratio (400f/ 600r), but don't wanna get too crazy with oversteer from the get go. It'll be a far cry from the understeer prone stock itr suspension.

That's funny you mention a large swaybar being the bad way to correct handling, it's the second time I've read that today. So if the choice is between 400f/ 600r with stock itr swaybar or 400f/ 400r with 26mm swaybar, which is better? That probably belongs in another thread... I better go start one...

And will I need a camber kit? I'd like to lower as much as will benefit handling, but not so much that it defeats the purpose... I intend to lower maybe 1" or so all around - maybe a little more in the front, then go get her cornerweighted and aligned.

If the front antisway bar on the ITR is bigger than the GSR bar, then put the GSR bar back on.

*waits for RStoR to chime in now...*

Cornerweighting will make all the difference in the world. Find out who is doing the cornerweighting for all the road race guys in your area and let him do it. That’s what I did. You cant just let any blow joe do the cornerweighting.

Cal,

I was actually going to go with s6, then decided on super functions b/c they came with the pillowball mounts. I like the 8kF/ 12kR which is what I would do (by swapping the stock stiff setup front to rear to get the oversteer bias I want...)

But then I came across a local buddy who said he has a set of the 99spec n1 dampers for $700 obo... That's certainly less than 1/2 of what the super functions will cost me - even with a discount. They're used for like maybe 4 months, so no biggie...

That and the theory that they run skinnier tires in the rear is a common explanation of their seemingly backwards spring rate bias... I'd prefer to run 205's or wider all around - so I can get more life out of the tires and swap F-->R and vice versa.

----What sort of theory???
Most people who run different tire sizes f/r are real die-hard enthusiasts and shop cars who can afford to do such things. If running 215 or 225 in the front proves that they can shave 1/10's from their lap time, they will do it. They are increasing the available traction in the front by having a larger contact patch instead of reducing traction in the rear to get the car to rotate. They are concentrating in gaining tracion in the front to fight understeer instead of sacrificing traction in the rear to get the car to rotate and reducing understeer.


That's funny you mention a large swaybar being the bad way to correct handling, it's the second time I've read that today. So if the choice is between 400f/ 600r with stock itr swaybar or 400f/ 400r with 26mm swaybar, which is better? That probably belongs in another thread... I better go start one...

-----Getting info from other people is always good but , it is ultimately u who will decide what is best. Its a matter of trial and error.


[Modified by Black R, 3:19 PM 11/29/2002]

yes, sway bars are a band-aid approach to the problem of understeer..*BUT* for a street car that will see some track time and mainly autoX it is a pretty damn good solution....for me, I didn't feel like running 700 lbs springs up front, so I run 500 with a 25mm front bar....

slightly OT, but why has it come about that JDM gymkhana/track set-ups for FWD cars are so dramatically different that over here? why all the front spring on JDM cars? I've heard of championship winning gymkhana CTR's running as much as 1200 lbs front springs!!! it doesn't make sense, both on paper, and by the sheer physics of the set-up

i may be able to answer this question.
it seems like most of the drivers here like the fact that they can have oversteer when they want it. in japan, most people want a slight understeer (fear is a big factor i believe). but not all drivers are like that. some of the drivers have close to same spring rates front and back, and some more to the rear. in an article i read (which i said i would post up, but ended up not being able to) a driver tried anything from a stock spring rate and up, and ended up that the time had no difference (this is probably because the driver was a pro GT driver, can adjust his driving technique to the rates). but he clearly mentioned that some of the spring rates were very uncomfortable to drive on.

fear has nothing to do with it. the jdm setup is far from a "front biased roll stiffness" setup. you have to look at everything, not just springs. with the typical 11k f/5k r setup with an itr front and rear bar will yeild a 50/50 roll couple distribution. the race setups are even more aggressive then that.

nate