hi, did a search.... and i am not very knowledgeable on this subject at all. perhaps it belongs in tech... but i thought i'd give it a try here anyways.

has anyone ever put a b16 head on their c1 block? i'm curious to know what kind of compression this bumps you up to, and what kind of #s one would put down with ITR or CTR cams at this level of compression. just trying to toy with different ideas for my GSR all-motor setup. i would think running at this compression without the proper precautions might be dangerous for the engine too, so any input people have on how to safeguard a setup such as this would be helpful.

thanks!

 

Go to http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/c.../compcalc.html to find out what the compression will be with whatever pistons you plan on running. The b16 head flows slightly better than the GSR head.. probably not enough for you to notice, really. Unless you can get the head for free I wouldn't bother.

As far as safeguarding against detonation.. running premium fuel obviously will help. But I doubt just changing heads will raise it enough to worry (if it raises it at all).

 

Dont do it. The head on your gsr is port matched for your block. the head on the b16a is matched for the b16a block. The rod/stroke ratio on your gsr is lower than the r/s ratio on the b16a, which means that the intake and exhaust port volumes require different volumes. also, the volume of air/fuel flowing through your engine is more than a 1.6L.

So you will move air faster through the mid range, but choke up your engine in the high end.

 

#1 The B16 head will yield a lower compression ratio, not higher. Lower by ~.3 if I remember correctly.

Common myth.


Exactly wrong. The b16 head will actually free up a hair of top end power, at the expensive of torque and midrange due to the b18c1's better volumetric effeciency numbers

 

From that dyno chart it appears the GSR head has better low and high end and the b16 has better mid range.

 

that's not a dyno chart.

 

good info thanks for correcting my ignorance.

so a better way to up compression on my motor would be to keep the b18c1 head and just drop JDM ITR p73-00 pistons in? i am trying to extract decent power out of OEM cams (ITR or CTR) to maintain some form of reliability. i am wondering whether upping the compression to 11.4ish:1 will make much of a difference at all.... perhaps i need to step up to CTR pistons before realizing a significant increase....

any thoughts?



[Modified by ajchen, 9:42 PM 11/6/2002]

 

b16 will respond better with higher lift cams. if you were to do that, change out the pistons and get some huge lift cams

 

umm.. i dont know much but ill add what i know..
ok, b16 head will lower compression, not rise...
and umm.. gsr head is the best!!
i wish mine didnt warp when my engine croked....
and a "*fully built* gsr will beat a fully built itr"

i recommend you just port and polish the damn thing and get those damn itr pistons and if you dont have valve springs, get some...

 

Not really. If you look at the chart I posted, you'll notice that for very high lift cams, the GSR head matches or even outperforms the b16 head.

However, the b16 eats up midrange cams (.2125" to .3125" of lift), which is one of the reasons Skunk2 stage 1s perform so well on b16s while not so good on b18c1s.


[Modified by qtiger, 6:58 PM 11/6/2002]

 

ahh, i just noticed there were 2 charts. ported and polished and with higher lift cams the b16 would own the gsr head on the top end.

 

Last I checked we were talking about stock heads.

 

look at my responce here to the post 5 threads up in this forum

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=262074

now look at the dyno comparing b16a to b18c head ls/vtec's here

http://www.importreview.com

stock for stock the b18c head is better... as in it will make more power and thats th bottom line

the b16a head breathes better at the very top BUT for usable power STOCK for STOCK b18c all the way

 

I agree. The B18C1 already has a great head. No need to do a B16 head on that motor. Get the CTR cams and the JDM ITR/CTR pistons. You've already got valve springs and retainers in there if I'm not mistaken. (last owner put those in)

Or if you really wanna get some mid range goodness, get some Toda Spec B's.

 

A few months ago my B18C threw a rod, and I ended up replacing the block with a B18C with p73 ITR pistons. There is a definate increase in power, but I haven't dyno'd it, so I couldn't tell you how much. I'm still running stock cams untill I find a good deal on ITR's. As far as compression it raises it to about 10.8:1, and I've basically had no problems. Just make sure you're running 93 octane.

 

I have a B16 head on my B18C1 block. I also put PR3 pistons in too. My CR is close to 11.1:1. With GSR cams and regular bolt ons, I put down 182hp and 134 torque. This is in a 99 Civic Si though. The motor responds very well and its basically like having a DIY type-R motor, since its the same components, block and head wise.

But yes, keeping stock GSR pistons will give you a lower CR if you put a B16A head on with no other mods. With a stock bottom end I put down 165hp and 126 torque as well.

 

what other mods do u have done besides the pr3 ?????

 

Internally, its all stock, B18C1 block, stock rods, stock crank (balanced), PR3 pistons, B16A head, GSR cams, ITR valvesprings. I have mild headwork, ITR IM, and basic bolt-ons. Nothing fancy, no stand-alone, just a chipped P28 and VAFC.

 

Just curious, what are you guys running NA with a built poor man's type R?

 

i have a b16a now and would like to replace with the gsr block down the road. anyone know if i can still use my existing 00 SI tranny or not?

 

Yeah all B series trannies are interchangeable

 

Yes you can, thats what I'm using right now. Don't be surprised if you break your diff down the road using slicks or sticky tires. B16A differentials are a bit weaker than GSR/ITR. A good upgrade is a LSD, Quaife would be more people's first choice I believe. That is what I'm running right now, never had a problem with it.

 

yea i know it's interchangeable. i was just concern if the SI tranny will be strong enough in the long run or not. i do plan to drag once in a while with some headwork and PR3 pistons. so i will only need to buy a gsr short block and gaskets in terms of parts, correct? thanks AzSi22!

 

b16 tranny is great for all motor. gearing is very similar to the R tranny

 

Plus the lifetime warranty doesn't hurt